Episode 67: Doug Wallace talks about mitochondria, our human origins and the possibility of mitochondria-targeted therapies
Today’s guest is Dr. Douglas Wallace, the director of the Center for Mitochondrial and Epigenomic Medicine at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
He is internationally known as the founder of mitochondrial genetics. Mitochondria are tiny structures within cells that produce 90 percent of a person’s energy and play an essential role in health and disease.
Dr. Wallace’s groundbreaking research in the 1970s defined the genetics of DNA within the mitochondria, as distinct from DNA in a cell’s nucleus. His research has shown that mitochondrial DNA is inherited exclusively from the mother and that genetic alterations in the mitochondrial DNA can result in a wide range of metabolic and degenerative diseases.
One of Dr. Wallace’s seminal contributions has been to use a mitochondrial DNA variation to reconstruct human origins and the ancient migrations of women. These studies revealed that humans arose in Africa approximately 200,000 years ago, and that women as well as men left Africa about 65,000 years ago to colonize Eurasia.
Dr. Wallace was inducted last year into the Italian Academy of Sciences during the academy’s 234th annual meeting in Rome. Founded in 1782, membership in the academy is limited to 40 Italian scientists and 25 foreign members. Over the years, the academy has seen such notable members as Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Louis Pasteur and Rita Levi-Montalcini.
Links:
Dr. Wallace’s Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia bio:
https://www.chop.edu/doctors/wallace-douglas-c
Mitochondrial DNA Variation in Human Radiation and Disease
Wallace Cell Perspective 9-26-15
Mitochondrial DNA Mutation Associated with Leber’s Hereditary Optic Neuropathy
Wallace LHON 11778 Science 1988
A Mitochondrial Bioenergetic Etiology of Disease
Wallace JCI Wallace JAMA Psychiatry2017
Association Between Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroup Variation and Autism Disorders
Maternal Inheritance of Human Mitochondrial DNA
Giles Maternal Inheritance 1980
Show notes:
3:32: Dawn opens the interview by mentioning that Doug grew up exploring the woods outside his neighborhood in the suburbs of Annapolis, Maryland. Dawn asks if his time outdoors sparked his interest in science when he was young.
4:14: Dawn asks Doug what led him to attend Cornell University after graduating from high school.
5:15: Doug talks about his decision to focus on genetics in school.
6:21: Dawn asks Doug how he selected Yale for his graduate studies.
7:49: Ken mentions that mitochondria can be considered bacterial “power-pack” organelles that generate the majority of a cell’s energy, as well as much else. He goes on to say that mitochondria account for about 30 percent of our bodyweight, and that there are roughly 500 trillion of them. He finally points out that despite all this that they are surprisingly under attended to and asks Doug to give listeners a brief mitochondria 101.
13:37: Ken mentions how he’s glad Doug answered the question of how mitochondria ended up losing 99 percent of their original genes, considering that mitochondria used to be free living bacteria with roughly 1,500 genes.
15:25: Dawn points out that Doug and his colleagues are credited with founding the field of human mitochondrial genetics more than 40 years ago. She then asks if anyone else was doing similar research when Doug started working on human mitochondrial genetics during his post-doc.
17:55: Following his post-doc at Yale, Doug spent seven years at Stanford University School of Medicine. Dawn asks Doug about his work during this time.
22:01: Dawn mentions that in 1983 Doug became the professor of biochemistry, anthropology and pediatrics at Emory University in Atlanta. During this time, he also was chairperson and senior editor of the Mitochondrial DNA Locus-Specific Database for the Human Genome Organization. Dawn asks what that work entailed.
24:11: Ken asks Doug about accepting a professorship of molecular genetics at the University of California, Irvine where he founded the Center for Molecular and Mitochondrial Medicine and Genetics.
26:25: Dawn mentions that in 2010 Doug moved to Philadelphia to become professor of pathology and laboratory medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. Going on to mention that he also became the founding director of the Center for Mitochondrial and Epigenomic Medicine at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP). She asks what took Doug to CHOP what sort of work goes on at the center.
28:07: Dawn asks Doug to expand on the work he and his colleagues have done that shows that mitochondrial DNA is inherited exclusively from maternal linage, and that genetic alterations to mitochondrial DNA can result in a wide range of metabolic and degenerative diseases.
31:34: Ken brings up that Doug often talks about how Western medicine has generally approached most diseases from a primarily anatomical and Mendelian perspective, and how it seems that our bioenergetics inheritance has been largely ignored. He asks if this is beginning to change, given the recent attention Doug’s work has gained.
33:53: Ken discusses things from a systems perspective, saying that it stands to reason that as energy availability declinesone would expect to see organ specific symptoms of a systemic defect, asking for Doug to elaborateon this rather sensible perspective when viewed through the lens of energetics.
37:10: Dawn asks Doug to discuss his research into the mutation referred to as, “mtDNA ND6 P25L,” which results in elevated reactive oxygen species production and neurological disease.
45:21: Ken asks Doug to further discuss his work in using mitochondrial DNA variation to trace human migrations and origins.
49:03: Ken mentions how some of his friends submitting genetic material to “23 and Me” and seeing the haplogroups they have inherited from their mother has led to some confusion.
52:23: Dawn asks about the aspect of Doug’s research that suggests that there might have been an ancient European migration to the Americas, a conclusion extrapolated from studying a Native American Tribe in Central North America.
55:49: Dawn mentions the molecular clock, which is essentially the concept that mutations accumulate in a piece of DNA at a roughly constant rate because they occur by chance. She asks about the role of the molecular clock in mapping a population’s history?
58:05: Ken asks if Doug has looked at manipulating cells (when there are some cells with mitochondrial DNA mutations, and some without), to enhance autophagy and thereby get rid of the cells with the mutant mitochondria, and if so, would such interventions like intermittent fasting and the ketogenic diet have any benefit in patients.
1:01:23: Ken mentions that interventions such as intermittent fasting inhibit mTOR, asking if this inhibition is sufficient to have a substantial benefit.
1:03:36: Ken asks Doug to dive deeper into the phenomenon of how the high susceptibility of the mitochondrial DNA to mutations, alongside the fact that it is passed only along the maternal lineage, allows for the rapid adaptation to environmental stimuli while also eliminating the majority of detrimental mutations. Ken asks Doug to also talk about how these changes in mitochondrial genes enable animals to adapt swiftly to changing diets and climates.
1:07:18: Shifting gears, Ken asks for Doug’s thoughts on the possibility of life on other planets, and the bacterial basis for mitochondria on earth that allowed for the explosion of complex life on our planet.
1:09:30: Dawn asks Doug to expand on the concept of mitochondrial DNA variations permitting our migrating ancestors to adapt to new environments, and the idea that these adaptations can predispose certain individuals to disease in environments that their mitochondrial DNA isn’t adapted to.
1:12:21: Dawn mentions that Doug and his colleagues at the center are exploring how mitochondrial genes influence adaptation to extremes in our environment, such as artic cold, tropical heat and high altitude. Mentioning thatIHMC does a great deal of work on human performance in extreme conditions, Dawn asks Doug to talk his work in this area.
1:15:00: Ken asks — if it is even possible — if we should attempt to change how coupled we are, given that mitochondrial coupling can affect disease risk.
1:18:05: Dawn asks which haplogroups are at the highest risk for common diseases such as type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s, and cancer.
1:20:02: Dawn asks if people should be testing their haplogroups to see their susceptibility to certain diseases.
1:21:00: Dawn asks if Doug could talk a bit about his research into the association between mitochondrial DNA haplogroups and Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD).
1:23:18: Dawn asks about Doug’s thoughts on the use of pro-nuclease transfer through three-person IVF, which is a very new and somewhat controversial technique designed to allow mothers with mitochondrial disease to have a baby without passing on that mitochondrial defect.
1:28:49: Ken discusses how mitochondria can no longer be viewed only through the lens of bioenergetics but also as platforms for intracellular signaling, regulators of innate immunity, and modulators of stem cell activity. Each of these properties provides clues as to how mitochondria might regulate aging and age-related diseases. Ken asks Doug to discuss how mitochondria participate in aging and whether a new era of mitochondrial-targeted therapies to potentially slow or reverse the aging process might be in prospect?
1:32:44: Dawn asks if there are any common environmental exposures that are negatively affecting mitochondrial function.
1:34:28: Ken asks Doug if, in addition to exercise, there are any other interventions that he thinks are broadly helpful in regards to improving mitochondrial function.
1:35:49: Dawn discusses how mitochondria produce local electromagnetic fields bymoving electrons as part of their normal function. She asks Doug if he has any thoughts on how external electromagnetic fields, such as those generated by electronics or communication devices, might interfere with mitochondrial function?
1:37:33: Ken mentions that Doug has hypothesized that the Qi and energy fields mentioned and targeted in Chinese medicine may actually be a proxy for mitochondrial phenotype and function. Asking how one might measure these in a human, and how could that affect disease treatment?
1:40:54: Dawn mentions how she is looking forward to seeing what comes out of the institute Doug is working on in China, which is bringing together Western, anatomical perspectives with the concepts found in Chinese Medicine.
1:41:09: Dawn comments on how Doug wasinducted into the Italian Academy of Sciences during the Academy’s 234th annual meeting in Rome. The Academy, founded in 1782, has a mission of encouraging scientific research. With a membership limited to 40 Italian scientists and 25 foreign members, the Academy’s long history, has seen such notable members as Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Louis Pasteur and Rita Levi-Montalcini. She closes the interview by mentioning how rewarding that must have been for Doug.
Episode 66: Peter Neuhaus talks about exoskeletons, robotics, and the development of exercise technologies for space and Earth
In today’s episode, Ken and Dawn interview their colleague Dr. Peter Neuhaus, a senior research scientist here at IHMC. Peter is an engineer well-known for his work on wearable robotic devices. In particular, Peter has focused on lower extremity exoskeleton devices and their applications for mobility assistance for paraplegics and other people with disabilities or partial paralysis.
In 2016, Peter lead an IHMC team that won a silver medal in the international Cybathlon, a competition conducted in Zurich in which people with disabilities used advanced assistive devices, including robotic technologies, to compete against each other.
In today’s interview, Peter talks about IHMC’s humanoid robotic efforts as well as his work with NASA designing an exercise machine for a human mission to Mars or other missions beyond low earth orbit.
Peter also describes the work he is doing with IHMC High-Performance Director Joe Gomes, the former Oakland Raiders strength and conditioning coach. Peter and Joe as well as others at IHMC are designing exercise technologies to extend the resilience of high-performing humans, such as astronauts and elite warfighters. Many of these technologies will eventually be able to be utilized by the general public.
Links:
Peter Neuhaus IHMC page:
https://www.ihmc.us/groups/pneuhaus/
DARPA Robotics Challenge videos:
Cybathlon videos:
http://robots.ihmc.us/cybathlon/
IEEE Robotics and Automation Magazine article about Cybathlon:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.08656.pdf
IHMC newsletter article about Cybathlon:
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IHMCNewslettervol10iss3.pdf
IHMC newsletter article about DARPA Robotics Challenge:
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IHMCnewslettervol13iss1.pdf
Show notes:
3:03: Dawn asks Peter about growing up in New York City.
3:33: Ken mentions that after high-school, Peter enrolled at MIT. Ken asks Peter what led him there.
4:04: Ken asks why Peter decided to major in mechanical engineering.
4:35: Dawn asks Peter what led him to travel across the country to attend the University of California, Berkeley for graduate school after he graduated from MIT.
5:10: Dawn asks what it was like for Peter to teach science to 5th– and 6th-graders as well as high-schoolers in Brooklyn after he received his master’s degree from Berkeley.
6:23: Peter talks about how after two years of teaching, he decided his window of opportunity to get a doctorate was shrinking and that it was essentially “now or never,” which led him back to Berkeley.
7:02: Dawn mentions that once Peter finished his doctorate, he went to work for a startup as a mechanical engineer. She asks what sort of work he did there.
7:47: Dawn talks about how a year and a half after getting his doctorate Peter met his future wife, who eventually led him to Pensacola, and in a roundabout way, to IHMC. She asks if he could share how that all came about.
9:22: Ken comments on how since joining IHMC in 2003, Peter has focused on wearable robotics systems and legged robots. Ken further mentions that Peter was one of the lead IHMC researchers participating in the DARPA Learning Locomotion project, where he helped develop quadrupedal locomotion algorithms for the Little Dog robot. Ken asks if Peter could talk about his work on this project?
11:08: Dawn, continuing with the discussion about DARPA projects, mentions that Peter played an important role in both the development of technology and in the management of IHMC’s humanoid robotics effort for the DARPA Robotics Challenge that was held between 2013 and 2015. IHMC placed second and brought home $1 million in prize money. Dawn asks what that experience was like.
12:10: Ken mentions there were three competitions that were part of the robotics challenge, and asks Peter to talk about IHMC’s performance in each of the competitions.
12:57: Dawn mentions that for more than a decade, Peter has been working on exoskeletons, wearable robotic devices that assist people with paralysis and other disabilities. She asks Peter how he got interested in this, and if he could give an overview of what is involved in the development of exoskeletons.
14:39: Ken comments on how wearables are a challenging application for robotics. He asks if Peter could elaborate on some of the specific technical challenges that go along with it.
15:27: Dawn changes the topic to the Cybathlon, a competition, held in Zurich, Switzerland for people with disabilities who are supported by modern assistive technology. IHMC won another silver medal in that competition and Dawn asks about the IHMC team’s preparation for the Cybathlon.
18:18: Ken mentions that a key factor that set IHMC’s exoskeleton apart from the rest at the Cybathlon was the incorporation of powered ankles, which improved mobility. Ken asks Peter to talk about the importance of this feature that the team added to the exoskeleton.
20:05: Dawn asks whether the balancing algorithms that are used in humanoid robots could also be used for ekoskeletons.
22:25: Dawn reads something that Peter once said: “Humans are great at perception. We can look around an area and see where we should go, and what we should step on. But communicating that information to a computer is pretty challenging.” Dawn asks Peter what those challenges are, and if he could speculate about the features that might be incorporated into a state-of-the-art exoskeleton 10 years from now.
24:41: Dawn asks about Peter’s involvement in the X1 exoskeleton that was developed in collaboration with NASA Johnson Space Center.
25:32: Continuing the discussion about NASA, Ken mentions that Peter and his team are also working with NASA on an exercise machine for long duration deep-space missions, such as a Mars mission. Ken talks about how astronauts are so susceptible to bone density and muscle loss while in space that exercise is very important. He asks Peter about the challenges of building exercise devices specifically designed for microgravity.
27:22: Dawn quotes the director of exercise physiology of the Johnson Space Center, Dan Hagen, who said, “Exercise is the number one health priority for astronauts when they are in space. No other activity, except eating and sleeping, is given that much priority. Two and a half hours each day are devoted to fitness.” Dawn asks if a computerized exercise machine could reduce the amount of time someone needs to train, which would free them up to be more productive.
28:33: Ken asks about Peter’s thoughts on how his work with NASA on exercise technology could have applications here on earth.
29:21: Dawn mentions that IHMC recently hired Joe Gomes as the institute’s high-performance director. She goes on to mention that Ken is in the process of building a team to search for ways to extend the resilience of high-performing humans operating in extreme environments and conditions. The team multi-disciplinary team is comprised of engineers and software developers, physicians, pathologists, social scientists, and human-performance specialists to improve training and maximize a person’s physical and cognitive performance. In light of that, Dawns asks Peter to give an overview of how he is teaming up Joe to develop an exercise machine.
30:18: Dawn comments on how health and fitness wearables and apps have, up to this point, merely tracked activity and reported it after the fact. She goes on to ask if it’s correct that the device Peter and his team are developing will enable both the trainee and trainer to receive immediate feedback and prompts during a workout.
31:14: Ken asks Peter whether the technology he is developing with Joe and the rest of the team will get away from a one-size-fits-all model and lead to a more personalized-training model.
32:26: Dawn asks Peter about rehabilitation, and if the exercise machine, or some version of it, will help track and quantify someone’s rehab from injury.
33:37: Dawn asks about the potential commercial uses for the exercise device.
34:21: Dawn asks if computer-controlled motorized resistance also makes exercise safer.
34:55: Ken asks Peter to discuss how the exercise device could potentially help the aging population given that muscle mass begins to decrease substantially after age 60 and leads to falls, frailty and insulin resistance, among much else.
36:49: Dawn asks Peter about the Mobility Unlimited Challenge, sponsored by the Toyota Mobility Foundation. She asks about IHMC’s role and why Toyota is interested in exoskeleton technology.
37:34: Dawn mentions that recently IHMC hosted the 13th annual Dynamic Walking Conference, where students, professors and engineers from around the world gathered in Pensacola for five days of presentations and demonstrations. She asked Peter to explain what the conference was about and what were some of the highlights from the meeting.
38:57: Ken mentions that 2020 is shaping up to be a big year for Peter and the entire IHMC Robotics group. In addition to the Toyota Mobility Challenge, the next Cybathlon is also scheduled for 2020. Ken asks if Peter could discuss his plans for that event.
39:45: Dawn brings up how Peter likes to participate in triathlons, and that he’s been quite active in the triathlon club in Pensacola. She says she understands that Peter recently had to give up running and asks about if that’s true.
41:01: Dawn closes by asking Peter if there is any chance that one day some of the technology Peter is developing could help him get back into running.
Episode 65: Dr. Brendan Egan talks about the importance of muscle and his research into exogenous ketones
Dr. Brendan Egan is an Associate Professor of Sport and Exercise Physiology at Dublin City University who is well known for research that shows resistance training can improve strength, muscle mass, reduce falls in older people, and perhaps even extend lifespans.
In addition to being a first-class researcher, Brendan is also a stand-out player in Ireland’s national sport, Gaelic football.
His current research is exploring the synergy between nutrition and exercise interventions to optimize performance in athletes and the elderly.
Current projects also involve protein hydrolysates in recovery and glycemic management; leucine and n-3 PUFAs in the elderly; and exogenous ketones and athletic performance.
Links:
Brendan Egan’s faculty page:
https://dcu.academic.ie/live/!W_VALOCAL_DCU_PORTAL.PROFILE?WPBPRSN=1631629
Brendan Egan’s Researchgate profile
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brendan_Egan2/contributions
Brendan Egan’s TEDx talk:
Exercise Metabolism and the Molecular Regulation of Skeletal Muscle Adaptation
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112005037
Metabolism of ketone bodies during exercise and training:
https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1113/JP273185
Fueling performance: Ketones Enter the Mix:
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(16)30438-7
Does Strength-Promoting Exercise Confer Unique Health Benefits?
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article-abstract/187/5/1102/4582884?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Does Strength-Promoting Exercise Confer Unique Health Benefits?
https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1113/JP275938
Show notes:
2:46: Dawn opens by mentioning that Brendan was born in Detroit, and that his Irish father moved the family to Ireland when Brendan was 3 years old. Dawn asks if Brendan’s mother was American.
4:09: Dawn comments on how Brendan was very athletic as a child and played Gaelic football, which is Ireland’s national sport, and asks if he could explain how this game is played.
6:02: Ken, following up on the last question, asks what Brendan’s training is like for this sport, and how he manages to fit it into his busy schedule as a professor.
7:41: Dawn asks if it is true that even though Brendan’s best grades were in math and physics, he never considered a career in science while he was in high school.
8:37: Dawn mentions that Brendan ended up at the University of Limerick after graduating, asking what made him decide to attend Limerick as well as what prompted him to major in sports and exercise science.
9:46: Dawn asks about two people, Phil Jakeman and John Kirwan, who played a big role in shaping Brendan’s education at Limerick.
11:58: Dawn comments on how after completing his bachelor’s of science degree, Brendan went to work on his master’s, heading to the UK and attending Loughborough University where he graduated with distinction in sports exercise and nutrition. Dawn asks what made him decide to attend Loughborough, and what stood out about his time there.
13:33: Dawn mentions that Brendan returned to Ireland in 2004 to start his doctoral studies under the supervision of Dr. Donal J O’Gorman at Dublin City University. Dawn asks what that experience was like.
15:06: Ken asks what Brendan learned from his research with Dr. O’Gorman, which focused on skeletal muscle adaptation to exercise and, in particular, continuity between acute molecular responses to individual bouts of exercise and the adaptations in skeletal muscle induced by exercise training.
18:30: Dawn asks what took Brendan to Karolinska Institute in Stockholm.
19:51: Brendan talks about his work at Karolinska using animal intravenous cell systems, and his research into transcriptional regulation of skeletal muscle insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes utilizing small non-coding RNA’s.
23:39: Ken mentions that Brendan’s first faculty position was at the University College Dublin in 2011, where he spent five years establishing his own independent research group. He then moved to Dublin City University in 2016. Ken asks how Brendan developed his research group, and what kind of work the group does now.
25:44: Dawn asks Brendan to discuss the prevalence of the age-related loss of muscle function and mass, which often leads to sarcopenia. She also asks about its effects on individuals as well as its impact on society.
27:45: Ken mentions that the heavy use of Prednisone, which a lot of older people are put on for long periods of time, rapidly diminishes their muscle mass.
29:35: Ken mentions that falls are a huge issue, seemingly associated with the loss of fast-twitch muscle as we age, and that falls are more a result of loss of power than loss of strength and mass. He proposes that this is a major, yet overlooked, driver of the prevalence of falling in the older population.
31:11: Ken comments on how there are complex and interacting causes of this loss of mass, strength and power which are not completely understood yet. He lists off certain drivers such as: insulin resistance; decreased availability of anabolic hormones coupled with increased anabolic resistance; the need for more protein as we age; decreased motor neuron function; elevated intercellular oxidative stress; reduction in satellite cell numbers and regenerative capacity; elevated myostatin signaling; reduced physical activity; increased chronic inflammation; changes in autophagy; and mitochondrial abnormalities. Ken asks Brendan to share his thoughts on what he considers the primary drivers of muscle loss.
33:06: Dawn mentions that one of Brendan’s most recent research studies is centered on the optimal way to exercise in terms of time efficiency. She inquires as to what the best combination of exercise would be for someone with a limited amount of time per week.
35:53: Dawn asks Brendan to talk about the importance of leg strength.
37:05: Dawn mentions that it has been well established for many years that resistance training can improve strength and muscle mass, and reduce the incidence of falls and fractures. She asks Brendan to talk about a recent study, done over the course of 15 years with more than 30,000 participants 65 years and older. The study showed that people who did strength training twice a week lowered their risk of dying by almost half.
38:33: Dawn asks what Brendan found in a follow-up study he did where he looked at a nutrition intervention that featured a high protein diet in combination with exercise versus a high protein diet alone. Unlike most similar studies, Brendan’s follow-up study used whole foods rather than protein supplements.
40:47: Dawn mentions that Brendan and other scientists at UCD are currently investigating a dairy-based protein which has been predigested from hydrolysate to see if it will enhance the insulin response and lead to a faster recover compared to other protein and carbohydrate drinks.
42:06: Ken comments on how optimal recovery post-exercise is more and more appreciated, and it’s obviously desired across athletic populations. He asks what happens at the cellular and molecular level during recovery that Brendan finds most relevant and interesting.
43:50: Dawn mentions that Brendan has been looking at exogenous ketone supplementation, particularly in the area of sport science, and how it might relate to athletic performance, and asks what this research is specifically focused on at the moment.
44:41: Ken asks Brendan for his thoughts on increasing the circulating availability of BHB by consumption of exogenous ketones and wonders if it would recapitulate the many positive effects of decreasing carbohydrate intake, which manifests itself in those engaged in a keto-adapted phenotype.
46:20: Dawn mentions that in some circles there is concern that one might overload the mitochondria by providing both high levels of glucose and ketones, asking what Brendan’s thoughts are on this.
47:23: Dawn asks what we know about the impact of exogenous ketones in athletic performance.
51:36: Dawn asks about exogenous ketone esters, particularly the HVMN monoester. She also asks about the AcAc diester developed by Dominic D’Agostino. She supposes that the two different compounds would have distinct pharmacokinetics and somewhat different effects. She asks Brendan to discuss this.
54:39: Dawn mentions that Brendan has given ketone salts and esters to athletes, and that there’s talk in the community about the tolerability of these different compounds. She asks about his experience with them and how he has improved the tolerability in his studies.
56:02: Ken asks about the effects of exogenous ketones on carbohydrate metabolism in high intensity sport, and what he thinks of the glycogen sparing versus glycogen impairing debate around exogenous ketones.
1:00:39: Dawn mentions that exogenous ketones lower blood glucose, asking what the role of the hepatic glucose output is, versus the change in peripheral uptake, and asks Brendan if he thinks BHB could be altering peripheral glucose uptake.
1:02:24: Ken asks about Brendan’s thoughts on studies concluding that exogenous ketone esters helped blood ketone concentrations reach greater than 2 millimolar and is likely a key mediator of any potential ergogenic effect.
1:03:32: Ken mentions the topic of recovery, pointing out that there have been several papers in recent years that look at the BHB monoester and recovery. Ken asks Brendan to discuss these studies and their implications for future research.
1:07:10: Dawn asks if exogenous BHB might have the same effect as exercise, which has long been known to increase brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) which enhances mental abilities, reduces anxiety, and increases neuroplasticity, considering that BDNF has been shown to be inhibited by histone deacetylases (HDACs), and that BHB inhibits HDACs.
1:08:21: Ken mentions that there have been a few ingestibles that have had effects that act as exercise mimetics. He inquires as to Brendan’s thoughts on these compounds.
1:10:14: Dawn asks Brendan about how Ireland is projected to become the fattest nation in Europe in the next 10 to 15 years.
1:11:07: To wrap things up, Dawn asks Brendan to give three to five pieces of advice for living a longer and healthier life, no matter the age.
Episode 64: Valter Longo talks about the fasting-mimicking diet and the keys to longevity
Today’s episode features Dr. Valter Longo, director of the Longevity Institute at the University of Southern California.
Valter is best known for his research on stem cells and aging as well as his fasting-mimicking diet. Often referred to as FMD, the diet is intended to avoid the downsides of fasting while reaping the health benefits of a calorie-restrictive diet.
Over a 25-year career, Valter has published numerous papers about the ways specific diets can activate stem cells and promote regeneration and rejuvenation in multiple organs to reduce the risk for diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer’s and heart disease.
He writes about this research and diet in a book that was released earlier this year, “The Longevity Diet: Discover the New Science Behind Stem Cell Activation and Regeneration to Slow Aging, Fight Disease and Optimizer Weight.” The book details an easy-to-follow everyday diet that is combined with short periods of the fasting-mimicking diet. Valter says the diet has the potential to help people live healthier and longer lives.
Valter is a native of Genoa, Italy and moved Chicago when he was 16. He received his bachelor’s of science degree at the University of North Texas in 1992 and his Ph.D. at UCLA in 1997.
Links:
Longevity Center website:
http://longevityinstitute.usc.edu
Longo’s USC faculty page:
http://gero.usc.edu/faculty/longo/
“The Longevity Diet”:
https://amzn.to/2s1fcky
A periodic diet that mimics fasting promotes multi-system regeneration:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4509734/
Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7
Fasting-mimicking diet and markers/risk factors for aging:
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/377/eaai8700
Prolon FMD website:
https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/?doing_wp_cron=1526216346.5062971115112304687500
Show notes:
2:24: Dawn opens the interview by mentioning that Valter was born and raised in Genoa, Italy, the hometown of Christopher Columbus. She asks if reports of him driving his neighbors mad playing Dire Straits, Jimmy Hendricks and Pink Floyd on his electric guitar as a youth are accurate.
2:43: Dawn asks Valter what his parents said when he tried to talk them into letting him go to London to be a rock star when he was 12 years old?
3:10: Valter left home when he was 16 to go visit an aunt in Chicago, but ended up staying in Chicago to go to school and play music. Dawn asks what that was like?
3:49: Dawn comments on how in addition to being exposed to some of the best blues music in the world, Valter also was exposed to some of the unhealthiest food in the world. Valter then talks about what he refers to as “the heart-attack diet.”
4:48: Dawn asks what lead Valter to attend the University of North Texas College of Music.
5:30: Valter joined the Army Reserve to help pay for college and ended up assigned to a battalion of Army tankers. Ken asks Valter what that was like.
6:15: Dawn asks if it’s true that the idea of directing a marching band lead Valter to switch majors as a sophomore.
7:07: Dawn comments on how not many jazz performance majors, who have never taken a biology course, decide to switch their major to biochemistry. She asks Valter what the people in the biochemistry department had to say about that.
8:04: Dawn mentions that when Valter was five years old, he saw his ailing grandfather pass away. She asks him to talk about that experience and the role it played in his decision to study aging.
9:14: Dawn mentions that after switching over to biochemistry and graduating from college in 1992, Valter headed to UCLA, which at the time was one of the world’s leading centers of longevity research. She asks Valter how that opportunity came about.
10:22: Ken brings up Valter’s work at UCLA in the lab of the pathologist, Roy Walford. Valter studied the effects of caloric restriction in the lab and Ken asks Valter to talk about what he learned.
11:25: Dawn comments that while in Walford’s lab, Valter made two important discoveries using a method that he invented. Dawns asks him to describe the discoveries.
13:20: Dawn asks Valter what led him to do his post-doc work at the University of Southern California, and what the focus of his research was at USC.
14:04: Dawn asks what it was like to study in a community of dwarves in Ecuador, a group of people who lack the receptor for the growth hormone, which is known as Laron syndrome. Valter talks what he learned from that experience.
16:08: Ken notes that these dwarves seem to be nearly immune to cancer and diabetes. Accidents, convulsive disorders and alcohol deaths, however, account for 50 percent of their mortality. Among non-dwarf relatives, these same causes of mortality account for just three percent of deaths. Ken asks Valter what causes this big disparity.
17:54: Dawn recounts that Valter went on to become a professor of gerontology and biological sciences at USC, and that in 2011 he became the director of the Longevity Institute. She goes on to say that the institute is not just interested in the idea of people living longer, but also understanding how people can live healthier longer. She asks if Valter could give some background on the institute and the type of research it does.
19:27: Ken notes that Valter believes it is smarter to intervene on aging itself, rather than try to prevent and treat diseases one by one as they come up. Ken asks Valter to talk about that.
21:04: Dawn mentions that Valter has traveled the world studying people in “blue zones,” areas of the world with the longest-lived populations. She goes on to mention that because of his time with centenarians, Valter concluded that in order to understand how people can live healthy lives, one needs to go beyond the scientific, epidemiological, and clinical studies, and investigate actual populations that age successfully.
23:11: Ken mentions that Valter had the opportunity to know Emma Romano, who lived to 117 and was reportedly the oldest person in the world. He goes on to mention that Emma’s sisters also lived into their 90s and some of the sisters made it to 100. These women, it would seem, were rare individuals who could eat and do just about anything they wanted and still age successfully. Ken asks how much of a role genetics played in their lifespan.
24:30: Dawn shifts gears to talk about Valter’s book “The Longevity Diet,” which is the outgrowth of Valter’s 30 years of research on aging. The book describes a daily nutritional regiment that is combined with the “fasting mimicking diet.” Dawn asks if Valter could define the fasting-mimicking diet.
27:02: Ken asks Valter what it is about the fasting-mimicking diet that actually mimics fasting.
28:38: Dawn asks if one should measure markers such as glucose, ketones, insulin, and IGF-1 while undergoing the fasting mimicking diet.
29:42: Dawn asks if the implementation of the diet requires a doctor’s supervision.
30:46: Dawn inquires as to what a typical fasting-mimicking diet meal looks like.
31:13: Dawn asks how Valter arrived at the 5-day period as the necessary time to experience the benefits of the fasting-mimicking diet.
32:22: Dawn asks if there are populations that Valter wouldn’t recommend the diet to.
33:33: Shifting gears, Ken asks if one can have coffee on the fasting-mimicking diet, mentioning that Valter’s grandfather and Emma Romano likely enjoyed espresso.
35:01: Ken mentions that Valter has said that skipping breakfast increases overall morality and asks him to explain this.
36:42: Dawn mentions that Valter has published a number of papers that indicate that cycles of fasting and refeeding can cause multisystem regeneration and rejuvenation that lead to extended health spans and effects ranging from those on the immune system to the nervous system to muscles. She asks Valter to talk about this.
38:27: Ken asks if Valter could share what he calls the “five pillars of longevity.”
41:31: Dawn asks about the mechanism by which fasting causes an unfavorable environment for cancer cells.
44:24: Ken brings up metformin as an example of a compound that can artificially induce some of the benefits of fasting in the body.
45:45: Ken returns to IGF-1, asking what role it plays in both health and disease.
46:31: Ken brings up the epidemiology research done in the 2011 meta-analysis by Burgers Atoll which showed that both low and high IGF-1 concentrations are associated with increased mortality, essentially showing that the hazard ratio appears U shaped in that both ends of the spectrum are hazardous to a person’s health. Ken asks if there is a sweet spot, or if Valter considers it to be a case of the lower the better, or if it somewhat depends on a person’s age?
48:42: Ken mentions that something that tends to be overlooked in discussing IGF-1 is that fasting, the ketogenic diet, and other such things increase the receptor sensitivity for IGF-1. Thus, even at a relatively low level, the effects would not be the same for someone not in a state of ketosis.
49:52: Dawn asks if protein intake is the only dietary factor involved in regulating IGF-1 levels.
50:21: Ken mentions that Valter’s 2014 cell metabolism paper leveled the risk firmly at the door of IGF-1 concentrations. Ken brings up that IGF-1 regulation of metabolism, however, is more about the interactions of IGF-1 with binding proteins. Ken asks how much IGF binding proteins play a role in IGF.
51:42: Dawn brings up that in 2014 Valter published a study with Levine Addal that said, “We provide convincing evidence that a high-protein diet, particularly if the proteins are derived from animals, is nearly as bad as smoking for your health.” She asks Valter to explain the process of coming to that conclusion.
52:33: Following up on that question, Ken mentions that the risks purported in the paper were relative risks, not absolute risks. In other words, the relative risk of dying from cancer in the high-protein group was roughly four times that of the low-protein group, but the absolute change in risk was maybe half of one percent. Ken points out that depending on how one presents the risk, it could lead to different headlines.
53:26: Ken comments on how he believes the presentation of risk to be misleading, because the change in absolute risk was so negligible as to be noise.
53:58: Ken, returning to protein, mentions that protein intake is complex and multifactorial. Ken asks Valter if the epidemiological research that has been discussed in the interview is able to tease out the important nuances and variables.
56:43: Dawn mentions that Valter often receives emails from people diagnosed with cancer, autoimmune disorders and neurodegenerative diseases who are seeking options beyond the standard treatments offered by their doctors. Valter says this was a key reason he established the Create Cures Foundation, and goes on to give an overview of the foundation and how it is funded.
58:01: Interview ends.
Episode 63: Keith Baar talks about collagen synthesis, ketogenic diet, mTORC1 signaling, autophagy, post strength training nutrition, and more…
Dr. Keith Baar joins Ken and Dawn today for the second of his two-part interview for STEM-Talk. Keith is a renowned scientist in the emerging field of molecular exercise physiology who has made fundamental discoveries on how muscles grow bigger, stronger, and more fatigue resistant.
He is the head of the Functional Molecular Biology Laboratory in the Department of Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior at the University of California, Davis. In his lab, he leads a team of researchers attempting to develop ways to improve muscle, tendon and ligament function.
Part one of our interview, episode 62, covered Keith’s childhood in Canada and his undergrad years at the University of Michigan as well as his time at the University of California, Berkeley, where he earned a master’s degree in human biophysics. We talked about Keith’s work at the University of Illinois, where he received a doctorate in physiology and biophysics. We also covered Keith’s time in the lab of John Holloszy, who is known as the father of exercise research in the United States, as well as the five years Keith spent at the University of Dundee in Scotland.
Episode 63 picks up with Keith explaining his decision to return to the states and join the faculty at the University of California, Davis. Ken and Dawn then talk to Keith about his most recent research, some of which is looking at how to determine the best way to train, as well as what types of foods compliment training to decrease tendon and ligament injury and accelerate return to play. This work has the potential to improve muscle function not only in athletes, but also improve people’s quality of life as they age. Another key topic covered in part two of our interview is the research Keith is doing on a ketogenic diet and its potential to reduce cancer rates and improve cognition. Keith also provides his thoughts on what optimal workouts and nutrition should look like.
Links:
Baar’s UC Davis physiology department bio:
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/physiology/faculty/baar.html
Baar’s UC Davis biology department bio:
https://biology.ucdavis.edu/people/keith-baar
Functional Molecular Biology Lab website:
Molecular brakes regulating mTORC1 activation in skeletal muscle paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137116/
Age-related Differences in Dystrophin article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27382038
Show notes:
2:54: Dawn begins part 2 of our interview by mentioning that for the past eight years, Keith has been working at the University of California Davis. She asks Keith what prompted him to return to the U.S. from Scotland and join the faculty at UC Davis.
3:37: Dawn points out that Keith’s Functional Molecular Biology Lab conducts research across a range of related topics, including musculoskeletal development and adaptation as well as methods for engineering functional musculoskeletal tissues in vitro. She asks Keith to give a high-level overview of some of that research.
4:16: Dawn comments that some of Keith’s recent work has shown that we can use specific nutrition and training strategies to optimize injury recovery and prevention. She goes on to say that musculoskeletal injuries are among the most common problems that active people have.
8:45: Ken talks about how Keith has noted that tendon stiffness is dependent upon collagen content, and the amount of crosslinks within. He goes on to mention that Keith has developed various training modalities, as well as nutritional protocols, that can increase and decrease tendon stiffness. Ken begins this line of inquiry by asking about the training methods for this purpose.
12:04: Following up on the previous question, Ken asks whether anyone has looked at how blood flow restriction training, which is increasing in popularity, affects tendon stiffness.
13:32: Dawn moves on to asking about nutrition. She mentions that Keith’s lab has done a great deal of groundbreaking work on the use of gelatin and a small amount of vitamin C to augment collagen synthesis in tendons, ligaments, cartilage, and bone. She asks if he could talk about this nutrition protocol and its effects, particularly when combined with jumping rope.
17:52: Ken mentions that this work is not only interesting scientifically, but it has an immediate, practical application that people can use in their life. Ken goes on to say that those suffering from stress fractures or a variety of other ailments could benefit from this.
21:09: Ken mentions that there are several different forms of collagen, asking if there is any particularly efficacious form, or if they function equally.
22:40: Ken comments that it is not just lower body weakness and injuries in tendons, but also tendonitis that is found in the shoulders and elbows. He asks if there is a variant of Keith’s protocol that is suited for this sort of tendonitis as well.
24:37: Ken asks a question submitted by friends in the special ops community. He mentions that one of their biggest issues is force absorption, due to the repeated, substantial, damage accrued in both training and in operations. He goes on to ask if a focus on eccentric training would lengthen fascicles to allow for greater absorption, and how does it influence the ability to contract concentrically.
26:13: Dawn mentions that she has heard Keith discuss “sugar cross-linking” in the context of aging and diabetes. She asks if this explains why diabetics suffer an increased incidence of tendon and ligament ruptures and injuries.
28:22: Ken, coming back to tendon stiffness, mentions that in addition to fast exercise, inactivity also leads to increased tendon stiffness, counterintuitive as that is. He asks if Keith could discuss this, somewhat surprising, fact.
30:20: Ken comments that ligament engineering is another fascinating area of Keith’s research; he goes on to say that Keith and his colleagues recently engineered the first in vitro ligaments. He goes on to inquire as to how these ligaments are created, what insights can be gleaned from them, and how Keith sees them being used in the future.
34:23: Ken states that mTOR inhibition by rapamycin is arguably the only strategy that has reliably resulted in lifespan extension across a multitude of different species. He goes on to say that we know that mTORC1 activation increases muscle mass and strength, which is critical for optimizing health span into old age. He goes on to bring up a recent paper Keith co-authored with Megan Roberts that showed the ketogenic diet had tissue-specific effects on mTORC1 signaling; decreasing signaling in the liver, while increasing it in the muscle. Ken postulates that perhaps researchers should focus their attention on tissue-specific mTOR activity, to further elucidate the issue of balancing mTOR for longevity with the maintenance of muscle for strength quality. Ken asks Keith if he had unlimited resources, how would Keith design a study to explore this.
43:32: Ken asks if Keith is familiar with a class of drugs that one could characterize as PPAR-delta agonists, sometimes called exercise mimetics, given the overlap between the effects of the ketogenic diet and this class of drugs.
45:10: In regards to longevity, Dawn mentions that few would argue that many elite athletes train for performance at the expense of health. She asks what would be Keith’s overall training recommendation for someone who wants to maximize healthspan and lifespan, and if that is possible while also striving for top levels of performance.
49:24: Ken comments on a belief in the world of “bro science,” that post-exercise carbohydrate ingestion is absolutely necessary for maximizing the anabolic response of resistance training. Ken asks if this is true, and if not, if Keith would educate us as to why and what optimal nutrition and workouts should look like.
51:18: Ken asks what Keith sees as the role of autophagy in the maintenance of muscle mass in aging adults.
53:48: Ken comments on the phenomenon of older people developing anabolic resistance, much like insulin resistance; mentioning a paper that recently looked at the ketogenic diet in that context and found it increased IGF-1 receptor sensitivity.
54:46: Dawn asks to what extent does Keith think a person’s baseline body composition can impact the response to an exercise stimulus.
55:44: Ken points out that Keith has been a scientific advisor for a number of different athletic teams and organizations, pointing out that Keith works to maximize the effects of training for both endurance and strength as well as ways to minimize injury. Ken asks Keith what that experience has been like.
58:27: Ken mentions his intrigue with the mission statement of Keith’s Functional Molecular Biology Lab: “To perform world class musculoskeletal research in a family environment.” Ken asks Keith to explain the story behind including “a family environment” in his mission statement.
1:01:08: Interview ends.
Episode 62: Keith Baar talks about muscle and explains mTOR, PGC-1a, dystrophin, and the benefits of chocolate
Today’s episode is the first of a two-part interview with Dr. Keith Baar, the head of the Functional Molecular Biology Laboratory in the Department of Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior at the University of California, Davis.
In his capacity as a researcher, Keith has made fundamental discoveries on how muscle grows bigger, stronger, and more fatigue resistant. He is a renowned scientist in the emerging field of molecular exercise physiology, and is leading a team of researchers attempting to develop ways to improve muscle, tendon and ligament function.
Part one of our interview features our conversation with Keith about his background and his time time in the lab of John Holloszy, who is known as the father of exercise research in the United States.
Episode 63 of STEM-Talk has Dawn and Ken talking to Keith about his most recent research, which is looking at how to determine the best way to train, as well as what types of foods compliment training to decrease tendon and ligament injury and accelerate return to play. This work has the potential to improve muscle function and people’s quality of life, especially as they age. Ken and Dawn also have a conversation with Keith about the research he is doing on a ketogenic diet and its potential to reduce cancer rates and improve cognition.
Links:
UC Davis physiology department bio:
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/physiology/faculty/baar.html
UC Davis biology department bio”
https://biology.ucdavis.edu/people/keith-baar
Functional Molecular Biology Lab website:
Molecular brakes regulating mTORC1 activation in skeletal muscle paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137116/
Age-related Differences in Dystrophin article:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27382038
Show notes:
3:14: Dawn opens the interview by mentioning that Keith grew up in Canada, and asks what he was like as a child.
4:02: Dawn asks if Keith was interested in science as a kid.
4:53: Dawn comments that after high school, Keith came to the U.S. to attend the University of Michigan, where he earned a bachelor’s degree in kinesiology. She Keith if Michigan was where he first became interested in the science of how muscles work.
7:54: Dawn asks Keith if he played any sports at Michigan.
8:34: Dawn asks what lead Keith to attend the University of California, Berkeley to pursue a master’s degree in human biophysics.
9:39: Dawn mentions that after his time at Berkeley, Keith returned to the Midwest to attend the University of Illinois where he received his doctorate in physiology and biophysics. She asks why he decided on Illinois for his doctoral work.
11:12: Ken mentions that Keith’s Ph.D. work focused on the effect of resistance exercise on specific molecular markers that are related to muscle growth. He goes on to say that Keith identified that mTOR complex 1 was activated in response to resistance exercise and that the activation was proportional to the load across the muscle. He asks Keith to talk about this work and its significance.
16:20: Ken comments how surprising that discovery must have been.
17:33: Ken asks Keith to explain the two basic ways of activating mTORC1 in skeletal muscle. Ken also asks whether these two are merely additive, or if together they elicit a greater muscle protein response than either would independently.
29:49: Dawn mentions that after Illinois, Keith went to work in the lab of John Holloszy at Washington University in St. Louis, a professor of medicine who is known as the father of exercise research in the United States. Dawn asks if is Holloszy is the one who discovered that when people do endurance exercise that their muscles accumulate more mitochondria.
32:24: Ken asks about the role of PGC-1a.
38:43: Ken comments that we know most sports require a combination of strength and endurance for optimal performance, bringing up the topic of concurrent training.
48:02: Ken asks if we know which form of AMPK is activated by things such as Metformin or the ketogenic diet.
49:24: Dawn comments that Keith eventually accepted a position at Michigan where he worked with Bob Denis, who figured out how to engineer muscles as well as ligaments. She asks Keith to share some things about the research they did together.
50:41: Dawn mentions that after Michigan, Keith accepted a position at the University of Dundee in Scotland, where he worked for 5 years. Dawn asks what that experience was like.
55:20: Ken mentions that from looking at the literature, it seems as though Keith discovered that the non-contractile portion of the muscle plays a key role in the transfer of force, and that this is nearly as important as the size of the muscle fiber itself. He asks Keith to elaborate on this finding.
58:45: Ken asks if Keith’s work has elucidated a potential countermeasure to the loss of dystrophin, for both the aging population and cancer patients. Keith then talks about research at the University of California, San Diego, that has shown the beneficial effects epicatechin, a flavanol in dark chocolate.
1:00:37: Ken mentions that some athletes are using Transdermal Epicatechin, and asks about the efficacy of such practice.
1:01:54: Interview ends.
Episode 61: Chris McCurdy discusses kratom and the opioid crisis
More than 90 Americans a day are dying from opioid abuse. Today’s guest, Dr. Christopher McCurdy, is at the forefront of research designed to help the U.S. deal with this drug overdose crisis.
Chris is a medicinal chemist and behavioral pharmacologist at the University of Florida who is internationally known as an expert on kratom, a botanical mixture that has been shown to help people struggling with addiction. He recently became president of the American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists, and has spent his career focusing on the design, synthesis and development of drugs to treat pain and drug abuse.
Chris earned his bachelor of science degree in pharmacy from Ohio Northern University, and a Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry from the University of Georgia College of Pharmacy in 1998.
He did his postdoctoral work at the University of Minnesota where he focused on opiate chemistry in relation to drug abuse and drug addiction. He joined the faculty at the University of Mississippi in 2001 where much of his research was successful in discovering unique and selective tools for sigma receptors, NPFF receptors and opioid receptors.
Dr. McCurdy accepted a post as a professor of medicinal chemistry at Florida in 2017 and became the director of the university’s Translational Drug Development Core.
Links:
Christopher McCurdy UF faculty page:
http://pharmacy.ufl.edu/faculty/christopher-mccurdy/
American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists:
Translational Drug Development Core:
https://www.ctsi.ufl.edu/research/laboratory-services/translational-drug-development-core/
Suspected Adulteration of Commercial Kratom Products with Hydroxymitragyine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27752985
Self-treatment of Opioid Withdrawal Using Kratom:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482427
Herbal Medicines for the Management of Opioid Addiction:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133323
Show notes:
2:58: Ken opens by asking Chris if he ever dreamed of becoming a professional athlete as a result of growing up in Pittsburg during the hay-day of the Stealers and the Pirates.
3:28: Dawn mentions that Chris’s father was a pharmacist, and his mother, a science teacher. She further mentions that in addition to being interested in sports, that Chris also was interested in science, and she asks what role his parents played in that.
4:45: Dawn mentions that Chris moved to a suburb of Youngstown Ohio just as he was starting high school. Chris talks about playing basketball, being part of a competitive swim team, and his reputation as a fairly straight-laced kid.
5:27: Ken mentions that Chris headed to Ohio Northern University after he graduated from high-school and initially pursued a double major in pharmacy and music. Ken asks what prompted that particular combination.
6:39: Ken talks about how at Ohio Northern, Chris’s first real mentor in science noted his talent for research, and suggested that Chris should head to the University of Georgia for the summer to get acquainted with research. Chris talks about how that eventually led to him attend Georgia for his doctorate.
10:39: Ken asks Chris to talk about his doctoral research into Native American Tobacco.
13:28: Dawn comments on how there weren’t too many post-doc opportunities available at the time he finished his studies at Georgia, but that she understands there is an apparent pattern in his life of being at the right place at the right time. She asks if it was this pattern that lead him to the University of Minnesota.
17:05: Dawn inquires as to what got Chris interested in working on the natural product called Salvinorin A (Magic Mint), and what became of that research.
20:40: Dawn mentions that because of his work on salvia divinorum, Chris was invited by the National Institute of Drug Abuse to give a talk in 2004, which is where he first learned about kratom.
23:08: As context, Ken asks if Chris could expound upon kratom’s history, the different types of kratom, and the varying effects they have on users.
32:10: Ken brings up the debate surrounding whether kratom is properly construed as an opioid. Chris goes on to talk about the differences between kratom and classic opioids.
37:33: Following up on the previous question, Ken mentions that the distinction between opioid and opiate is quite important, given that when people talk of opioids they are generally thinking of opiates specifically. Given that respiratory depression is a major issue for those on opiates, Ken asks how many lives could be saved by moving people off opiates.
40:32: Shifting the conversation, Ken asks about the use of kratom among athletes.
43:10: Ken, following up on the last question, mentions that the primary use of kratom among athletes is not for performance enhancement, but rather recovery, and coping with the pain. One frequently hears of kratom use among athletes, especially those engaged in sports such as wrestling, mix martial arts, bodybuilding, and football to help manage the pain associated with their sport-related injuries.
47:08: Ken comments on the importance of Chris’s endeavor to perform clinical trials with kratom, and asks about the resistance he has faced in doing trials.
50:17: Dawn asks if there are any documented side effects of chronic use of kratom, and if there is the potential to overdose.
53:49: Dawn, shifting gears, mentions that while at the University of Mississippi he met Bonnie Avery, an analytical chemist, and that he began to collaborate with her. Dawn goes on to mention that Bonnie became known as the bearer of bad news, asking how she ended up with that reputation, and also how Chris ended up marrying Bonnie.
57:10: Dawn says that in 2013 the Florida Legislature announced that it was going to create a preeminence program that would provide state universities millions of dollars to attract top level faculty members and scientists. She mentions that because of this program Chris was approached, and that he and Bonnie eventually joined the Florida faculty. Dawn asks how that all came about.
59:39: Dawn asks Chris about a mentor who once advised him, “Always focus on the science, and be true to the science.” Dawn asks Chris if that is advice he, too, shares with people.
1:01:55: Interview ends.
Episode 60: Marie Jackson talks about the amazing endurance of Roman concrete
Why is it that modern marine concrete structures crumble and corrode within decades, but 2,000-year-old Roman piers and breakwaters endure to this day?
Episode 60 of STEM-Talk features Dr. Marie Jackson, a scientist who has spent the past two decades figuring out the answer to that and other questions about the durability of ancient Roman mortars and concretes.
Marie is a research associate professor in the department of geology and geophysics at the University of Utah. She is known for her investigations in pyroclastic volcanism, mineralogy, materials science, and archaeological science that are breaking new ground in understanding the durability and specialty properties in ancient Roman mortars and concretes.
She is particularly focused on deciphering Roman methods and materials in the hope of producing innovative, environmentally friendly cementitious masonry products and nuclear waste storage materials that would benefit the modern world. She was the lead principal investigator of a drilling project in the summer of 2017 on the Surtsey Volcano, which is on a small isolated island off the coast of Iceland. The volcano is growing the same mineral cements as Roman marine cement and the drilling project is helping provide extraordinary insights into the materials and processes the Romans used.
She is particularly focused on deciphering Roman methods and materials in the hope of producing innovative, environmentally friendly cementitious masonry products and nuclear waste storage materials that would benefit the modern world. She was the lead principle investigator of a drilling project in the summer of 2017 on the Surtsey Volcano, which is on a small isolated island off the coast of Iceland. The volcano is growing the same mineral cements as Roman marine cement and the drilling project is helping provide extraordinary insights into the materials and processes the Romans used.
After receiving her bachelor of science in earth sciences from the University of California Santa Cruz, Marie traveled overseas and received a doctorate from the Universite de Nantes in France. She returned stateside and received a doctor of philosophy from John Hopkins University as well as a Ph.D. in earth and planetary sciences.
Marie then went to work as a research geoscientist for the U.S. Geological Survey. After taking time off to raise a family, Marie joined the department of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California, Berkeley, as a project scientist. She stepped into her current position at the University of Utah in 2016.
Links:
Mechanical resilience and cementitious processes in Imperial Roman architectural mortar:
Marie Jackson ResearchGate profile:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marie_Jackson
Surtsey blogspace:
https://surtsey50years.utah.edu
Show notes:
4:06: Dawn begins interview by mentioning Marie’s love of the outdoors as a child and asks her to talk about those days.
4:38: Dawn asks if Marie’s father, who was a geologist, contributed to her love of the outdoors.
5:11: Dawn asks what topics Marie was interested in while in high school.
5:44: Dawn mentions that when Marie went to college, she never envisioned herself as a scientist, but this changed in her junior year, when her interest in earth sciences took root. Dawn asks Marie to elaborate on how that happened.
6:27: Ken asks Marie what role, if any, her family’s ranch played in motivating her interest in geology.
7:22: Dawn mentions that after college Marie worked for a mining company for a few years, which enabled her to save enough money to travel to France, where she worked on a doctorate. She asks if this is how Marie ended up in northern Corsica, in the Italian Alps.
9:39: Ken asks about her transition back to the United States, where she attended John Hopkins University after spending 3 years in France.
10:23: Ken mentions Marie’s reputation at John Hopkins for being a “desert rat” in Utah’s Henry mountains. He asks her to elaborate on her experiences in that area.
12:06: Dawn comments on how after Marie got her PhD in 1987, she went to work for the U.S. Geological Survey, and that she ended up doing a structural study of the seismically active Kaoiki fault zone on the southeast flank of the Mauna Loa Volcano in Hawaii. Dawn asks Marie to talk about that.
13:44: Dawn comments on how Marie didn’t know much about Rome until she spent a year there in 1995. Marie talks about her experience.
14:17: Ken mentions that Marie’s priority for many years was to raise her children, but Ken asks what else she did in those days.
15:05: Dawn comments on how during this period, Marie was writing papers and working with scientists who were nearing retirement. Dawn asks what that was like.
17:55: Dawn asks about the work Marie did after she started, in 2011, working at UC Berkley’s Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering as a project scientist.
19:55: Ken mentions that after a couple of years at Berkley, Marie accepted a position at the University of Utah. He comments on how that must have been an interesting transition to come full circle back to Utah.
20:44: Dawn asks for Marie to explain exactly how the Romans made concrete, and what made it so unique.
22:11: Ken mentions that while modern maritime concrete structures typically degrade significantly within a matter of decades, the Romans built piers and breakwaters 2,000 years ago that endure to this very day. He inquires as to what prevents Roman maritime concrete from degrading.
26:42: Ken comments on how the Romans are often said to be very deliberative people. He asks how much of the invention of their concrete does Marie think was deliberate, and how much a happy accident.
28:51: Ken asks about a comment that Pliny the Elder made in the first century about how the best maritime concrete was made from volcanic ash found in the regions along the Gulf of Naples. Ken asks Marie what is so particularly special about the ash at that particular region.
31:24: Ken mentions the Romacons project, and the book that came out of it, “Building for Eternity,” which was published in 2014. Marie is one of the authors, and the book explains how the Romans built these lasting structures in the sea. He asks if Marie could elaborate on the story the book tells.
35:14: Dawn asks Marie what the cementing characteristics are that have made Roman concrete so unique.
37:23: Ken mentions the demonstrated durability and longevity of Roman maritime concrete. He asks if lessons learned from the Romans could be of relevance to engineers currently working on devising containment for long term storage of hazardous waste substances.
41:11: Marie talks about her current project as the lead principle investigator on the Surtsey Volcano.
44:48: Dawn asks how Marie is disseminating the knowledge and information about the work that she and her team are doing at Surtsey.
46:20: Dawn asks Marie what life and career advice she would give to an up and coming scientist.
47:11: Ken inquires as to what Marie enjoys doing in her time away from research.
48:31: Interview ends.
Episode 59: Stephen Cunnane discusses the role of ketones in human evolution and Alzheimer’s
Nearly five million people in the United States have Alzheimer’s disease. In 30 years, that number is estimated to be 16 million
In today’s episode, Ken and Dawn interview Dr. Stephen Cunnane, a Canadian physiologist whose extensive research into Alzheimer’s disease is showing how ketones can be used as part of a prevention approach that helps delay or slow down the onset of Alzheimer’s.
Cunnane is a metabolic physiologist at the University of Sherbrooke in Sherbrooke, Quebec. He is the author of five books, including” Survival of the Fattest: The Key to Human Brain Evolution,” which was published in 2005, and “Human Brain Evolution: Influence of Fresh and Coastal Food Resources,” which was published in 2010.
He earned his Ph.D. in Physiology at McGill University in 1980 and did post-doctoral research on nutrition and brain development in Aberdeen, Scotland, London, and Nova Scotia. From 1986 to 2003, he was a faculty member in the Department of Nutritional Sciences at the University of Toronto where his research focused on the role of omega-3 fatty acids in brain development and human health. He also did research on the relation between ketones and a high-fat ketogenic diet on brain development.
In 2003, Dr. Cunnane was awarded a senior Canada Research Chair at the Research Center on Aging and became a full professor at the University of Sherbrooke. He has published more than 280 peer-reviewed research papers and was elected to the French National Academy of Medicine in 2009.
Links:
Lower Brain 18F-Fluorodeoxyglucose Uptake:
Castellano et al AD dPET J Alz Dis 2015
Brain glucose and acetoacetate metabolism:
Nugent et al dPET YE Neurobiol Aging 2014
Energetic and nutritional constraints on infant brain development:
Cunnane & Crawford J Human Evol 2014
Inverse relationship between brain glucose and ketone metabolism in adults:
Courchesne-Loyer et al PET KD JCBFM 2016
A cross-sectional comparison of brain glucose and ketone metabolism in cognitively healthy older adults:
Croteau et al. AD MCI CMR Exper Gerontol 2017
A 3-Month Aerobic Training Program Improves Brain Energy Metabolism in Mild Alzheimer’s Disease:
Show notes:
3:33: Dawn mentions that Stephen was born in London but that his family emigrated to Canada when he was an infant. She asks him about growing up in a suburb of Montreal.
4:02: Ken mentions that he has been told by a reliable source that as soon as Stephen got into high school he spent a lot of time in the chemistry lab, where sometimes created mischief.
4:58: Dawn asks if it is true that Stephen nearly flunked out of college when he first started.
5:16: Dawn comments that Stephen got his PHD in physiology at McGill University which is when his interest in science really caught on and asks how that came about.
5:55: Stephen talks about communicating with Desmond Morris while Stephen was working on his post-doc.
8:03: Dawn asks about Stephen’s post-doctoral research, for which he traveled to Aberdeen London and Nova Scotia; as well as what prompted his interest in nutrition in the brain.
9:01: Dawn mentions that in 1986 Stephen became a faculty member in the department of nutritional sciences at the University of Toronto. She asks how he ended up teaching nutrition when he didn’t have a degree in nutrition.
10:33: Stephen talks about accepting a senior Canada Research Chair at the Research Center of Aging and a full professorship at the University of Sherbrooke.
11:57: Ken talks about Stephen’s interest in human evolution how it eventually led him to research the nutritional importance of shore-based foods and omega-3 fatty acid in particular in the development of human’s brains. He asks Stephen to talk about his work leading up to the hypothesis that humans evolved near the water.
16:32: Dawn asks which of the various forms and sources of omega-3 are optimal for overall wellness and brain health, and what are the differences between them.
18:50: Dawn asks Stephen if there was any pushback against his research into the importance of ketones and fat in the brain development of infants? Dawn points out that Stephen was working on this during the middle of the low-fat craze in the U.S. and Canada.
20:33: Dawn mentions that there is evidence that intermittent fasting improves cognition, and asks if there is any evolutionary basis for that?
21:49: Dawn asks if it was Stephen’s research into the metabolism of omega-3 fatty acids and the importance of ketones that lead him to write his book Survival of the Fattest?
23:04: Dawn notes that it seems as if ketones are at the core of Stephen’s way of thinking about infant brain development. She asks him to elaborate on this.
24:15: Dawn asks Stephen to talk about what it’s going to take to transition to the therapeutic use of ketones.
26:06: Ken mentions how Stephen has noted the importance of ketosis in postnatal life for a number of reasons, including brain development and survival and early breast milk availability. Ken asks about the effect of women consuming a ketogenic diet while breastfeeding children, and if this inadvertently lowers ketone levels in the infant due to lower medium chain triglyceride (MCT) levels in the breast milk, a phenomenon found in rodents fed a ketogenic diet during lactation.
28:36: Dawn comments how Stephen has said that certain brain-selective nutrients — such as DHA, iodine, iron, selenium, zinc and copper — would be best supplied by a shore-based diet. She asks which shores humans would have evolved close to and which types of food made up this diet during human evolution?
32:29: Dawn mentions that at Sherbrooke, Stephen’s research has been focused on the use of brain imaging techniques to study changing brain fuel metabolism and cognitive function during aging. She asks if he can give an overview of what he is finding.
34:08: Dawn comments on the increasing interest in exogenous ketones for treatment of neurological disease. She further mentions that these ketone esters can elevate Beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) levels far beyond what is normally attained during the ketogenic diet. She asks Stephen for his thoughts on the initiation of ketosis through MCTs versus exogenous ketones (salts or esters) versus carbohydrate restriction versus fasting. She asks about mechanistic differences between each of these methods of initiating ketosis.
35:39: Ken mentions that Stephen’s tracer work has used 11c acetoacetate in the setting of endogenous ketones and neurological disease. He asks if there are any key differences in brain ketone metabolism between endogenous and exogenesis ketosis after mentioning how BHB and acetoacetate appear in a relatively predictable 1:1 ratio when ketosis is induced through diet.
37:28: Ken mentions that it has been noted that ketones are 10% more efficient than glucose as a brain fuel. He asks Stephen about his understanding of cerebral fuel selection given ample availability of both glucose and ketones.
38:25: Dawn asks if there are areas of the brain that are particularly high users of ketone bodies, and if so, could that have any link to some of the functional or behavioral changes, such as mood, that are seen in some cases of animals or people adhering to a ketogenic diet.
39:16: Dawn asks Stephen to talk about his research into how and why omega-3 fatty acid homeostasis changes during aging.
40:21: Dawn asks for Stephen’s opinion on what are the primary challenges that our brains face as we age.
41:12: Dawn mentions how that Stephen is currently focused on Alzheimer’s research and ketones. She asks for an overview of his research that’s looking into how ketones can be used to the advantage of a person suffering from Alzheimer’s disease.
43:21: Dawn comments on how we know that APOE4 carriers have an increased risk of development of late onset familial Alzheimer’s disease. She asks if there is a link between the genotype and a change in brain metabolism.
44:42: Ken asks if substrate utilization differs between healthy subjects and those with neurological conditions, such as mild cognitive impairment or Alzheimer’s disease.
45:18: Dawn asks Stephen what other metabolic interventions he thinks have promise for a neurodegenerative disease.
46:01: Dawn mentions that exercise helps to get more ketones into the brain. She inquires as to how much exercise is needed to do this effectively.
46:49: Dawn asks Stephen to elaborate on his recommendation that older people who might not be able to exercise effectively should consider consuming a ketone drink made from MCTs that people can make in their kitchen.
48:31: Ken comments how he envisions it not being too long before studies can be done with powerful ketone ester drinks, and that exogenous ketones will become more readily available and more potent, giving people more effective options to elevate their level of circulating ketones.
50:09: Dawn asks Stephen if chronically high systemic inflammations contribute to neuroinflammation and cognitive decline. She also asks if targeting systemic inflammation with nutritional ketosis would be an acceptable strategy to enhance and also preserve cognitive function and brain longevity.
51:15: Dawn mentions that we know ketones increase brain blood flow and metabolism. She goes on to ask if Stephen thinks that some of the beneficial effects might be working through the newly discovered brain lymphatic system or glymphatic system.
51:41: Dawn points out there are about five million people with Alzheimer’s disease in the U.S., and that the number of Americans with AD is estimated to swell to 16 million in the next 30 years. She asks if Stephen thinks this dramatic increase in the prevalence of Alzheimer’s is related to the Western diet which has created an epidemic of type-2 diabetes and other chronic diseases.
52:42: Ken mentions that a number of recent papers show dramatic improvements in both health span and life span of rodents that are fed a ketogenic diet. While humans are not rats, he asks Stephen for his thoughts on the effects of prolonged ketosis as a promoter of human healthspan and perhaps even longevity.
53:51: Dawn concludes the interview by asking Stephen’s about his interests outside of work.
Episode 58: Flora Hammond discusses traumatic brain injuries and how treatments are evolving
Today’s episode features one of the nation’s leading physicians and researchers who has spent years studying and treating traumatic brain injuries.
Dr. Flora Hammond is a professor and chair of the Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at Indiana University School of Medicine. She also is the Chief of Medical Affairs and Medical Director at the Rehabilitation Hospital of Indiana. She has been a project director for the Traumatic Brain Injury Model System since 1998.
Shortly before we conducted this interview with Dr. Hammond, she and a team of physicians and scientists at Indiana University received a $2.1 million grant to continue research into people who suffer traumatic brain injuries and how these injuries affect the lives of patients as well as their families.
Dr. Hammond is a Pensacola, Florida, native who graduated from the Tulane University School of Medicine in 1990 and completed her residency in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. She also completed a brain injury medicine fellowship at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit. Her research in the area of brain injury includes studying the prediction of outcome, aging with brain injury, causes of and treatments for irritability, and quality of relationships.
In 2016 she received the Robert L. Moody Prize, which is the nation’s highest honor reserved for individuals who had made exceptional and sustained contributions to the lives of individuals with brain injuries.
Prior to the 2016 Robert L. Moody Prize, Dr. Hammond received local and national awards for her teaching, clinical care and research, including the 2001 Association of Academic Physiatrists Young Academician Award, the 2011 Brain Injury Association of America William Caveness Award, and the 2013 Baylor College of Medicine Distinguished Alumnus Award.
In 2011, 2012, and 2013, Dr. Hammond led the Galveston Brain Injury Conferences which focused on changing the view of brain injury as an incident with limited short-term treatment to a chronic condition that must be proactively managed over the course of life.
She co-chairs the American Congress of Rehabilitation Medicine Chronic Brain Injury Task Force, and serves on Journal of Head Trauma Rehabilitation editorial board. She has authored more than 140 peer-reviewed publications.
Links:
Flora Hamond faculty profile:
https://medicine.iu.edu/faculty/20302/hammond-flora/
“Potential Impact of Amantadine on Aggression” study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28891908
Show notes:
4:08: Interview begins.
4:38: Dawn says it’s her understanding that Flora dreamed of becoming a physician ever since middle school. Dawn asks what inspired her at such an early age to become a doctor.
5:02: Flora talks about also wanting to become a teacher, but worried that she would have to give up teaching to become a doctor.
5:40: Continuing with Flora’s history, Dawn mentions that after high school Flora traveled to New Orleans to attend Tulane University. Dawn asks if it’s true that Flora’s grandmother was her landlord while she was in college and med school.
6:20: Ken mentions that Flora’s mother was a dietician and that her father was a pathologist. He asks Flora what specifically inspired her to specialize in brain injury rehabilitation and research.
8:36: Dawn comments on how before Flora accepted a positon at Indiana, she was in the Carolinas, and asks about her work there.
9:30: Dawn asks how Flora ended up at the Indiana University School of Medicine.
10:23: Ken mentions that Flora’s lecture at IHMC attracted a lot of interest and a full-house. He follows up by asking Flora what she thinks is driving the interest in brain injuries.
11:34: Dawn talks about how Flora and a team of physicians and scientists at Indiana have spent years studying and treating TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) and the effects of TBI on the lives of patients and their families. She goes on to mention that Indiana recently was awarded a $2.1 million grant to continue those studies for the next five years. Dawns asks Flora to talk about the scope of the work she will be doing as a result of the grant.
12:57: Ken mentions that Flora has pushed to have a national approach to the treatment of TBI, where patients and physicians continuously track the injury and continue treatments. He asks her to expand on her thoughts on such a program and how more people and organizations can start working toward an integrated approach.
13:48: Dawn asks for Flora to explain the different types of brain injury, and to clarify that TBI is not merely one singular disease or type of injury process. Flora goes on to explain the difference between mild, moderate and severe injuries, and then describes how the treatments differ.
14:50: Dawn asks Flora how she diagnoses the severity of TBI, and if there are any biomarkers that are currently in use.
16:01: Dawn asks what common issues patients struggle with after a traumatic brain injury.
17:08: Dawn proposes the hypothetical scenario of a patient coming into Flora’s rehabilitation clinic, and asks Flora to walk us through an example of how they would treat that person and what program they would go through.
19:21: Ken mentions that there are a number of TBI centers that focus on integrative medicine, and rather than just treating the brain injury they are now treating the patient as a whole human being. He talks about optimizing sleep, proper nutrition, and ways to manage aggression and anxiety in addition to specific treatment of the brain. He asks Flora how much does it seem that physicians are currently integrating these approaches into TBI treatment around the country.
20:17: Dawn asks what we know about the triggers of irritability and aggression in TBI patients, and if there is a biochemical component to these triggers or if it is something else.
22:21: Dawn inquires as to the different ways that Flora uses to track a patient’s condition on the cognitive or emotional level.
22:45: Flora talks about research on aging after TBI, and that interestingly enough, it’s not always about worsened outcomes. Some people actually get better over time, while others stay the same or their condition even worsens over time. Dawn asks if there are ways to differentiate who will improve and who will worsen with time.
23:50: Ken comments on how in the past it was thought that brain plasticity, and thereby recovery, was more plausible for a child with TBI, but that recovery would plateau at some point. He points out, however, that much of Flora’s work has shown that recovery can occur in older individuals and they can continue to improve long after the initial injury. He asks Flora if she could talk about that work.
24:44: Dawn asks if there is a difference in treatment for a child with TBI compared to an adult with a similar injury.
25:17: Ken mentions that ApoE 4/4, and even 3/4 status, has been shown to be a genotype that is associated with worsened patient outcomes after TBI, and that there are other genetic variables beyond ApoE that are relevant. He asks, in regards to the era of precision medicine, are we looking at these genetic variables with respect to a personalized patient treatment program?
26:21: Ken asks if we are able to accurately predict outcomes in the early hours and days following the injury.
27:00: Dawn asks if a severe brain injury typically implies a poorer outcome.
27:36: Mentioning that she has several people close to her with various types of TBI, Dawn talks about how she loves the idea of a participatory research system that Flora has proposed and implemented. Dawn asks Flora to expand on this approach to TBI research.
28:31: Ken talks about how Flora has focused a lot of her research on non-pharmacological interventions for TBI. He asks for some examples of approaches that she has studied, and if those approaches are being harnessed by the general TBI treatment community.
29:33: Ken mentions that Flora recently published a study on the promising ability of the drug Amantadine to curb aggression in TBI patients. He asks if she could elaborate on that.
33:27: Dawn comments on how in most treatment modalities for brain injury, the focus is on the acute phase. She asks how can treatment be extended after the initial management, and what else does Flora think long-term treatments for TBI patients should include.
34:13: Dawn asks if it is true that all of the recovery from a brain injury happens within the first year.
35:08: Dawn asks if medication in the early recovery phase has a downside in the long term.
36:01: Ken mentions that a number of therapies for TBI that showed great promise in animal studies, failed to yield the hoped-for results in human trials. He asks what are the current barriers to developing new acute therapies that reduce morbidity and mortality in TBI patients are.
37:09: Ken comments on how TBI is an injury to the brain, but it also affects a variety of other systems and pathways in the body. He mentions that the Hypothalamic Pituitary Adrenal access can often be impacted in TBI patients. He asks for a brief explanation of the HP access and how damage to it can affect the patient.
38:38: Ken asks if there would ever be a case where a person with HPA access as their dysfunction could be misdiagnosed with TBI and vice versa?
39:24: Dawn mentions that it seems as though the HPA axis has been widely ignored, comparatively speaking, to other metrics in TBI patients. She asks if we are starting to include its assessment and status in patients, as far as tracking is concerned.
39:52: Dawn comments on how Flora has coined the term CBI (Chronic Brain Injury). Dawn asks if CBI has been incorporated into a public health and societal approach, in addition to traditional medicine.
40:37: Ken asks Flora to elaborate on how she would scope and define CBI as opposed to TBI.
41:17: Dawn asks for Flora to talk about how brain injury rehab has evolved over her career.
42:21: Dawn congratulates Flora on receiving the Robert L. Moody Prize last year, which is the nation’s highest honor for individuals who have made exceptional and sustained contributions to the lives of people with brain injuries. She follows up by asking for some background on the award itself.
42:48: Dawn asks where Flora sees the field of TBI research and rehabilitation heading in the next 10 years.
43:48: Dawn closes by asking Flora how she likes to spend her free time.
Episode 57: Lauren Jackson discusses radiation exposure, including the effects of a nuclear strike
Today’s interview features Dr. Lauren Jackson, a nationally known expert in the field of tumor and normal-tissue radiobiology. She is especially recognized for her expertise in medical countermeasure development for acute radiation sickness and delayed effects of acute radiation exposure.
Lauren is the deputy director of the Division of Translational Radiation Sciences within the Department of Radiation Oncology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine.
Lauren, who also goes by Isabel, received her bachelors in science in microbiology from North Carolina State University in 2006, and her PhD in pathology from Duke University in 2012.
She currently is a principal or collaborating investigator on a number of industry and federally sponsored contracts and research grants. She has published extensively on the characterization and refinement of animal models of radiation-induced normal tissue injury that recapitulate the response in humans. Models developed in Lauren’s laboratory have gone on to receive FDA concurrence as appropriate for use in medical countermeasure screens.
Lauren is a senior associate editor for Advances in Radiation Oncology, a journal of the American Society of Therapeutic Radiation Oncology, and serves as an ad hoc reviewer for several peer-reviewed journals. She also is the author of several book chapters on normal tissue tolerance to radiation, mechanisms of injury, and potential therapeutic interventions.
Links:
Jackson’s University of Maryland web page: http://www.medschool.umaryland.edu/profiles/Jackson-Isabel/
Radiation Emergency Medical Management website: https://www.remm.nlm.gov
Centers for Disease Control website: https://www.emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/index.asp
BARDA website: https://www.phe.gov/about/BARDA/Pages/default.aspx
NIAID website: https://www.niaid.nih.gov
Show notes:
5:06: Dawn begins interview by asking Lauren about her childhood and if it’s true that she was one of those children who was always asking questions?
5:39: Lauren talks about how she was more interested in history and the humanities in high school and wanted nothing to do with science.
5:59: Dawn asks Lauren about her decision to attend the University of Georgia to major in journalism and political science.
6:28: Ken comments on how even though Lauren was just 18 at the time, she was one of two students picked to represent the University of Georgia at the Center for the Presidency in Washington, D.C. Lauren then talks about how thanks to that experience, she decided journalism and political science weren’t the right majors for her.
7:38: Dawn points out that when Lauren first went to college, she took the minimum number of science classes. Lauren goes on to talk about how after spending time in D.C., she ended up applying to North Carolina State University and switching her major to microbiology.
8:52: While at N.C. State, Lauren worked for Dr. Hosni Hassan, an expert on Oxidative Stress. Dawn asks Lauren about the focus of her research with Dr. Hassan.
9:58 Dawn talks about how when Lauren was an undergrad at N.C. State, she became interested in tumors and cancer treatment, and found a professor down the road at Duke University who was doing interesting work in that area. Dawn asks Lauren if that’s why she ended up going to Duke for her doctorate.
10:52 Dawn asks Lauren to elaborate on how her background in journalism and political science connected her towards the path of radiation countermeasure research.
11:42 Dawn points out that as a graduate student at Duke, Lauren took part in projects that looked at radiation injury. Dawn asks Lauren to give an overview of what sort of work was involved in the projects.
12:46 Ken asks Lauren to explain the difference between clinical radiation exposure and radiation that someone would experience as a consequence of a nuclear attack.
13:59: Ken shifts the conversation to human space flight, asking Lauren to discuss the radiation astronauts will experience outside the protection of the Earth’s magnetosphere, such as galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events. He also asks how they relate to the other previously mentioned clinical- and weapons-based radiation.
14:52: Ken asks Lauren to describe what the lifetime limits are for radiation exposure, how they are produced, and what is the biggest source of radiation exposure for the average person.
16:06: Dawn asks if it’s possible to translate the findings in clinical radiation to these other types of radiation exposures, such as nuclear weapons and space radiation.
16:40: Dawn asks if clinical radiation research is playing a role in the work that’s being done in space research as well as research into the effects of nuclear-weapons attack.
17:27: Ken asks Lauren to explain how radiation doses are defined.
18:28: Ken mentions that Lauren’s work has focused on both the acute and chronic effects of radiation exposure, then asks her to give an overview on how the body would respond at the cellular and physiological levels to an acute exposure.
19:56: Dawn mentions how proximity to the event, in the event of a nuclear attack, would be a variable factor as to the level of exposure, then asking what else determines the degree of an acute response.
22:35: Dawn asks if the impact of radiation exposure is different based on different systems in the body, further asking which systems are more or less susceptible and what the different responses are.
24:06: Dawn mentions how Lauren has focused a large part of her research on the effects of radiation exposure to the pulmonary system, then asking her to talk about those chronic and lifetime affects following initial exposure.
25:38: Ken remarks how oxidative stress is a major focus on Lauren’s research, and follows up by asking about the impact of oxidative stress on the tissue, surrounding tissue, and its role in the overall injury response.
26:54: Ken remarks on the evidence that shows that animals fed a diet high in blueberries have some degree of resistance to the inflammatory response due to the blueberry’s antioxidant activity. He asks if antioxidants, more broadly, could play a role in the prevention of radiation injury.
27:46: Dawn asks about genetic susceptibility to radiation injury, and if we know of any individuals who are more or less susceptible to injury based on their genetic makeup.
28:48: Ken wonders if the genetic screening for radiation tolerance were developed adequately, that perhaps it could have an application in the selection process for long-duration missions into deep space.
29:25: Ken inquiries about the counterintuitive fact that smokers have a reduced incidence of radiation-induced lung cancer.
30:07: Dawn asks if gender or age play a role in a person’s susceptibility to radiation injury.
31:13: Dawn mentions how we know that epigenetic modifications (changes with respect to how a gene is expressed) can occur in response to a wide variety of different stressors or environmental influences. She then asks if we are seeing modifications that occur as a result of radiation exposure at the epigenetic level.
31:47: Dawn mentions that Randy Gerald was at Duke at the same time that she and Lauren were at Duke, and that he was the founder of epigenetic modifications.
32:15: Ken asks that in regards to a point-of-care test that could identify individuals who have been exposed to radiation and injured, what are the potential markers that Lauren would look for.
34:01: Dawn asks if markers of tissue injury, such as lung-radiation injury, are found in the blood.
35:44 Ken mentions the importance of timing from the point of injury as being critical with most biomarkers. He then asks that given the temporal nature of radiation injury, is there a time effect on biomarkers of radiation injury.
36:37: Ken asks about the effects of radon.
37:30: Ken notes that some areas are inherently much higher in radon levels than others, such as New England, and parts of Florida. He asks if there is a level that Lauren would consider safe for basements.
38:42: Dawn asks about the current position Lauren holds at the University of Maryland School of Medicine as the Deputy Director of the Division of Translational Research Sciences, and the Department of Radiation Oncology, and her research team that she has there.
40:32: Dawn asks about the different categories of potential countermeasures for radiation injury that Lauren has been looking at.
41:28: Dawn mentions how Lauren also works alongside the FDA, where she serves as a subject-matter expert for the review committees. She asks Lauren to describe her work with the FDA and in particular the FDA animal rule and the role that plays in countermeasure approval for humans.
44:03: Lauren explains the role that the NIAID (National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Disease) plays in countermeasure development.
45:56: Ken asks if countermeasures that we might develop to limit the damage from a nuclear attack might potentially be used for applications such as clinical radiation or space radiation exposure.
47:12: Dawn asks about a countermeasure drug called Bio300 that Lauren worked on with a company called Humanetics Corporation, asking where it stands with respect to research and potential clinical applications in humans.
48:37: Dawn asks Lauren to talk about the approval process and the specifics of Neupogen and Neulasta, (the first two drugs ever approved as potential countermeasures for acute radiation syndrome) that were approved on the basis of data generated at Lauren’s laboratory.
49:58: Ken notes that Neupogen has demonstrated improved survival in people exposed to lethal radiation doses on Earth, then asks if Neupogen, Neulasta, or some other bone-marrow active medical countermeasures have applications in human space flight.
50:54: Dawn asks if there is a one-size-fits-all drug to target all the physiological systems in response to radiation exposure, or if a patient would need to take an array of countermeasures to cover each of the different systems.
52:22: Dawn notes that after Fukushima, potassium iodine pills were flying off the shelves, and asks if that is a viable option for protection against acute radiation syndrome.
53:32: Ken asks if there are any prophylactic treatments approved or in development for radiation exposure.
54:46: Ken asks Lauren to talk a little more about BARDA (Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority) and the role it plays in radiation injury research and countermeasure development.
56:44: Dawn notes that Lauren has served as the program director for the BARDA Radiological and Nuclear Model Development Program, asking her to talk about that position and what that work entails.
57:25: Lauren talks about how it seemed that no one was interested in radiation after the Cold War, but that recent interest in radiation research has grown significantly.
59:48: Dawn mentions that four or five years ago you couldn’t get any companies interested in looking at ways to improve survival in case of a nuclear attack, but that in just the last two weeks of November that Lauren has had 22 companies reach out to her.
1:01:48: Dawn asks what the current threats of nuclear or radiological terrorism or nuclear attack are.
1:02:18: Ken asks how much protection to radiation exposure, arising from a weapon’s detonation, does a basement offer.
1:03:05: Ken remarks how, in regards to basements, those that do not have windows would be preferable in the context of protecting against radiation exposure.
1:04:13: Ken asks if any of the countermeasures developed thus far could be effective against space radiation, and thereby offer NASA an ability to leverage the BARDA investment.
1:05:26: Ken remarks how he is glad to hear that the federal agencies are wisely leveraging each other’s investments, rather than independently pursuing them.
1:06:31: Ken talks about long-duration missions in deep space and the possibility that astronauts might experience serious cognitive deficits caused by radiation exposure. He also points out the need for a countermeasure against cognitive decline as a result of radiation is not yet met here on Earth, citing that workers who cleaned up the Chernobyl nuclear disaster experienced serious cognitive decline close to ten years after the incident.
1:08:22: Ken asks if potential neurocognitive medical countermeasures exist today or if they may be available in the near future, and would a single agent be effective for both terrestrial exposures and the galactic cosmic radiation found in space.
1:09:18: Dawn wraps up the interview by asking Lauren if she is an N.C. State fan or a Duke fan when it comes to basketball.
Episode 56: Jon Clark talks about NASA, supersonic jumps from the edge of space, and humans in extreme environments
Today’s episode is the second of a two-part interview with IHMC Senior Scientist Dr. Jonathan Clark, a six-time Space Shuttle crew surgeon who has served in numerous roles for both NASA and the Navy.
Part one of our interview, episode 55, ended with Jon talking about the tragic death of his wife, astronaut Laurel Clark. She died along with six fellow crew members in the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003. February marks the 15th anniversary of the disaster. Today’s episode picks up with Jon talking about becoming part of a NASA team that investigated the Columbia disaster.
Ken and Dawn also talk to Jon about the extensive research he has been doing on the neurologic effects of extreme environments, and also about the instrumental work he has been doing in developing new protocols to benefit future aviators and astronauts.
Jon received his Bachelor of Science from Texas A&M University, and medical degree from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland. He is board certified in neurology and aerospace medicine. Jon headed the Spatial Orientation Systems Department at the Naval Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory in Pensacola. He also held other top positions in the Navy and qualified as a Naval flight officer, Naval flight surgeon, Navy diver and Special Forces freefall parachutist.
Jon’s service as a Space Shuttle crew surgeon was part of an eight-year tenure at NASA, where he was also chief of the Medical Operations Branch and an FAA senior aviation medical examiner for the NASA Johnson Space Center Flight Medicine Clinic. He additionally served as a Department of Defense Space Shuttle Support flight surgeon covering two shuttle missions.
In addition to his new role as a senior research scientist at IHMC, Jon is an associate professor of Neurology and Space Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and teaches operation space medicine at Baylor’s Center for Space Medicine. He also is the space medicine advisor for the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, and is a clinical assistant professor at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston where he teaches at the Aerospace Medicine Residency.
Links:
Jon Clark’s NASA bio:
https://www.nasa.gov/offices/nesc/academy/Clark-Jonathan-Bio.html
Jon Clark You Tube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZLZ5yKgXJR0L1xZzhdTY_dUzo5ZLILxS
Jon Clark Red Bull Stratos page:
http://www.redbullstratos.com/the-team/jonathan-clark/index.html
Part one of Jon Clark STEM-Talk interview:
https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-55/
Show Notes:
4:07: Ken comments that Jon was part of the NASA team that studied every detail of the Columbia disaster. When the team’s report came out, Jon said, “You have to find ways to turn badness into goodness. You have to. It’s the only way you get through this.” Ken then asks Jon to talk about some of the lessons NASA learned.
7:27: Dawn says that on October 14, 2012, Jon was part of a team that successfully accomplished the highest stratospheric free fall jump from 128,100 feet. Dawn asks Jon how he became involved in this record-breaking jump.
9:37: Dawn asks Jon what his support team looked like for the jump.
11:15: Ken asks Jon what kind of preparation he and the team went through for the jump, and how long the preparatory period was.
12:46: Dawn asks Jon what the medical concerns for the jump were.
16:54 Dawn comments that when Jon discusses the medical team, he talks a lot about continuous physiological monitoring in the research world. She then asks Jon what kind of monitoring he was doing before, during, and after the jump.
22:58: Dawn asks Jon to discuss research he has done around neurological issues, specifically when it comes to space exposure.
23:31: Ken comments that intermittent artificial gravity has been discussed over the years, as a way to potentially mitigate some of the medical risk factors associated with long duration space missions. Ken then asks Jon how this may be accomplished in space and what we know about the effects of intermittent gravity.
30:30: Dawn says that NASA recently released a report describing an increased incidence of white matter hyper intensities in astronauts. She then asks Jon why we are seeing these lesions now and not in earlier crew.
34:01: Dawn comments that the DOD communities are also interested in the issue of white matter hyper intensities. Dawn then says that she and Jon are on a NASA Translational Research Institute project that is looking at the effect of simulated microgravity on brain lymphatic outflow. She then asks Jon to talk more about this study.
38:24: Dawn says that trying to perform effective aeromedical research with either aviators or astronauts can be difficult due to a fear of participating in studies whose findings might affect their flight status. She then asks Jon how he addresses these concerns.
41:02: Ken says that Jon has been extensively involved in previous investigations focused on physiological episodes in the aviation community. He then asks Jon to discuss what is meant by the term physiological episode and to give a few examples.
46:09: Dawn asks Jon what he sees as some of the most exciting areas of research for extreme environmental medicine in human performance.
48:42: Ken comments that Jon was instrumental in having EEG recordings removed from the standard flight physical. Ken asks Jon what led to his concerns on this measurement.
51:15: Dawn says that Jon has done research with hyperbaric oxygen and that right now we are seeing a push to bring hyperbaric oxygen therapy in as treatment for things like traumatic brain injury and PTSD. She then asks Jon what his thoughts are on this.
56:00: Dawn says that Jon has been extensively involved in suit testing for NASA and other commercial entities. She then asks what this testing involves and what the future space suits will look like.
1:00: 19:Ken says that there was a meeting at IHMC years ago where NASA displayed each of the generations of NASA space suits.
1:03:41: Dawn asks Jon to expand on his comments about how to get a deliverable from research.
1:05:05: Dawn says that William Fife was a key mentor of Jon’s and that now Jon works with William’s daughter. Dawn asks Jon to discuss the time he spends mentoring young students and what advice he has for them.
1:08:03: Ken says that NASA has been formulating plans for a crew tended cislunar space station concept, known as the Deep Space Gateway. This station could be used as a staging ground for robotic and human lunar surface missions as well as eventual travel to Mars. Ken then asks Jon to talk more about the Deep Space Gateway.
1:11:41: Dawn asks Jon to discuss his recent sailing expedition off the California coast.
1:15:27: Ken mentions that Jon participated in the National Outdoor Leadership School executive expedition that went into the Wind River Range of Wyoming. Ken points out the Roger Smith, who was featured on episode 51 of STEM-Talk, and his wife Margaret Creel were longtime instructors at NOLS, and asks Jon for his thoughts about NOLS and the work it does.
1:19:20: Ken and Dawn thank Jon for joining them.
Episode 55: Jon Clark looks back at his Naval and NASA careers and the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster
Today’s episode is the first of two-part interview with IHMC Senior Scientist Dr. Jonathan Clark, a six-time Space Shuttle crew surgeon who has served in numerous roles for both NASA and the Navy.
In a wide-ranging conversation with Ken and Dawn, Jon talks about his 26-year career in the Navy, his extensive research on the neurologic effects of extreme environments on humans, and the tragic death of his wife, astronaut Laurel Clark, who died along with six fellow crew members in the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003.
Jon received his Bachelor of Science from Texas A&M University, and medical degree from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland. He is board certified in neurology and aerospace medicine. Jon headed the Spatial Orientation Systems Department at the Naval Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory in Pensacola. He also held other top positions in the Navy and qualified as a Naval flight officer, Naval flight surgeon, Navy diver and Special Forces freefall parachutist.
Jon’s service as a Space Shuttle crew surgeon was part of an eight-year tenure at NASA, where he was also chief of the Medical Operations Branch and an FAA senior aviation medical examiner for the NASA Johnson Space Center Flight Medicine Clinic. He additionally served as a Department of Defense Space Shuttle Support flight surgeon covering two shuttle missions.
In addition to his new role as a senior research scientist at IHMC, Jon is an associate professor of Neurology and Space Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and teaches operation space medicine at Baylor’s Center for Space Medicine. He also is the space medicine advisor for the National Space Biomedical Research Institute, and is a clinical assistant professor at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston where he teaches at the Aerospace Medicine Residency.
Links:
Jon Clark’s NASA bio: https://www.nasa.gov/offices/nesc/academy/Clark-Jonathan-Bio.html
4:32: Ken and Dawn welcome Jon to the show.
4:47: Dawn comments that Jon was the son of an army officer, and as a result, he grew up all over the world. Dawn then asks Jon what it was like to move so frequently to different army bases as a youth.
5:24: Dawn says that Jon is known as a fairly frugal person and asks him to tell the story of a piece of burnt toast in Germany that contributed to his frugality.
6:39: Ken asks Jon to share the story of how he learned how to fly planes in Germany as a teen-ager.
9:43: Dawn comments that Jon had aquariums in his bedroom as a child. She then asks Jon what drew him to marine biology.
13:53: Dawn asks why Jon chose Texas A&M for college after leaving Germany.
15:36: Jon talks about how he was accepted into medical school during his senior year of college, and how he was disappointed that the Navy sent him to flight school instead.
18:46: Ken says that after flight school, Jon ended up going to medical school after all. Ken asks Jon to talk about what happened.
20:09: Dawn asks Jon what it was like transitioning from being an officer in the Navy to a student in medical school.
21:24: Dawn comments that Jon was three years into his neurosurgery residency when his plans shifted. She asks Jon what happened.
24:52: Dawn says that Jon spent 26 years on active duty with the Navy, qualifying as a Naval Flight Officer, Naval Flight Surgeon, Navy Diver, U.S. Army Parachutist, and Special Forces Military Free Fall Parachutist. She asks Jon if it is fair to say that he has an appetite to try new things.
26:35: Ken comments that he and Jon met in Bruce Dunn’s lab at the University of West Florida in the late 1980s while Jon was in Pensacola working at the Naval Aerospace Medical Institute. Ken says that he recalls Jon working with Bruce on electrophysiology studies. Ken then asks Jon how he and Bruce met.
30:36: Ken says that Jon met his wife, Laurel, while he was in the Navy Dive School in Panama City.
35:34: STEM-TALK BLURB
36:00: Dawn asks Jon to share his experiences with the Marines in Desert Storm.
38:44 Dawn comments that Jon ended up back in Pensacola in the mid-1990s as the department head of the Naval Aerospace Medical Research Laboratory. During this time, Jon looked into the low-frequency active sonar, which was injuring both marine life and divers. Dawn then asks Jon to discuss this project.
41:14: Dawn asks Jon to discuss the Bug Springs project.
44:32: Ken comments that in 1996, Laurel was selected as a NASA astronaut, and she moved to Houston to begin astronaut candidate training. During this time, Jon was still in the Navy. Ken then asks Jon how he ended up working at NASA in Houston.
50:07: Ken asks Jon to discuss the transition at NASA.
53:02: Dawn asks Jon what his responsibilities were as a NASA flight surgeon.
55:00: Ken comments that it must have been an extremely tough experience when Laurel was aboard the space shuttle Columbia, that disintegrated upon reentering Earth in 2003.
1:00:40: Dawn comments that Jon’s son Ian asked why his mother did not bail out during the accident. Ian also told Jon that he was going to become a scientist and invent a time machine in order to go back in time and warn everyone. This was when Jon realized he had to focus the rest of his career on making it safe for those following in Laurel’s footsteps.
1:02:00: Part one of the interview ends.
Episode 54: Brianna Stubbs talks about ketone esters and their application in sport
Late in 2017, a San Francisco startup company brought one of the commercial ketone esters to market. Today’s episode features an interview with a scientist and world-class athlete who has spent the past year helping develop and rollout HVMN Ketone, an FDA-approved drink that promises increased athletic ability as well as heightened focus and energy.
Dr. Brianna Stubbs earned her PhD in biochemical physiology from Oxford University in 2016 where she researched the effects of ketone drinks on elite athletes. During Brianna’s collegiate athletic career, she won two gold medals while representing Great Britain at the World Rowing Championships. She first made international news when as a 12-year-old she became the youngest person ever to row across the British Channel.
Brianna graduated from Oxford’s Pembroke College with a BA in preclinical sciences with the idea of becoming an MD. But after spending a year working as a research assistant helping to investigate the effect of exogenous ketones on human performance, she decided instead to pursue her doctorate in biochemical physiology and investigate how ketone compounds might be applied in a sporting and healthcare setting in the future.
While at Oxford, she worked alongside Dr. Kieran Clarke to develop a novel ketone monoester that has been shown to improve exercise performance in endurance athletes. She also was a member of the Great Britain Rowing Team and in 2016 become the World Champion in the lightweight guadruple sculls. Brianna’s time at Oxford gave her a unique opportunity to combine her scientific interest in sports physiology and metabolism while also competing at an international level.
Brianna moved to the United States in June of 2017 to work at HVMN and help bring the company’s ketone ester to market.
Links:
HVMN website: https://hvmn.com/ketone
Mark Mattson STEM-Talk: https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode007/
Wikipedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNhuJ4JiK40
Mice and ketones cognition: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5102124/#!po=10.1064
Owen and Cahill: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6061736
Oxford ketone study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27475046
Glycogen re-synthesi and ketones: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28398950
Ketones, glycogen and mTOR: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440563/
Caryn Zinn: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5506682/
Ketone esters vs ketone salts: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5670148/
Acetoacetate paper: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2017.00806/full
HVMN online fasting community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/136348456816447/
Show notes:
3:52: Ken and Dawn welcome Brianna to the show.
4:07: Dawn congratulates Brianna on bringing one of the first ketone esters to the commercial market, and asks Brianna to provide some background that led to the ketone ester launch.
5:31: Ken comments that the HBMN ester has been approved by the FDA as “generally recognized as safe,” or GRAS. He then asks her to expand on what this means in terms of human use and to expand on the value of the GRAS status.
6:31: Dawn asks Brianna what sparked her interest in science.
7:18: Ken comments that he heard Brianna was seven years old when she ran her first race, and that she ran so hard, she made herself sick. He asks if this is true.
8:16: Ken says that Brianna’s father was the one who got her interested in rowing, and when she was six years old, he signed her up for the first rowing race across the Atlantic Ocean. Ken asks if it’s true that he had never rowed before.
10:21: Dawn comments that Brianna used to run and row with her father as he trained for these races, and then when she was 12 years old she rowed across the English Channel, becoming the youngest person to ever do so. Dawn asks how this came about.
11:59: Dawn asks what Brianna’s mother was doing while she and her father were off rowing across the English Channel.
12:41: Dawn says that Brianna won her first international rowing event when she was 16, and then at 18 she won a silver medal at the junior world championships. She then asks Brianna’s to describe her training schedule as a teenager.
13:44: Ken asks Brianna what it feels like to be the best in the world at something after winning a gold medal in rowing at the 2013 and 2016 world championships.
16:32: Ken says that as a rower, Brianna mainly competed as a lightweight. He then asks what this meant in terms of preparing for competition from both a nutritional and training standpoint.
18:18: Dawn comments that the problems associated with excess training stress and inappropriate energy balance in female athletes were previously called the female athlete triad, but it has now been renamed relative energy deficiency in sport (RED-S). She then asks if Brianna experienced any physiological issues associated with competing as a lightweight athlete and if she saw this in any of her male colleagues.
20:35: Dawn asks Brianna if she has any thoughts on how coaches, nutritionists, and sports scientists could better support their athletes to prevent these issues.
22:39: Ken says that it was during this time, when Brianna was at Oxford, that there was a study being done on the effects of ketone esters on rowers. He then asks how Brianna became directly involved in the study.
23:51: Dawn asks why Brianna chose to postpone her medical school training to devote more time to researching ketones.
25:04: Dawn says that she understands that the CEO and a team from HVMN visited Oxford and that Brianna sort of invited herself to dinner and convinced them that they needed to hire her to roll out the ketone ester. She then asks if that is how Brianna ended up in San Francisco.
26:52: Dawn asks what Brianna’s first year in the states has been like.
27:40: Dawn says that a bottle of the ketone ester provides 25 grams of beta-hydroxybutyrate, one of the ketone bodies that the body naturally produces during a fast or period of starvation. She then asks Brianna what happens after someone consumes a bottle.
29:32: Ken asks Brianna if she has given any thought to possible consequences of supplementing with only beta-hydroxybutyrate. He then says that it has occurred to him that there might be a reason why the liver produces roughly equal amounts of acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate.
31:34: Ken says that looking back on the Cahill study, he can’t imagine proposing a study like that to an IRB now.
32:01: Dawn comments that the work Brianna was doing with Dr. Clark suggests that drinking ketones alongside a high-carb meal deliver a powerful performance boost. She then asks Brianna if the carbs are necessary to get the full performance boost of the supplement.
32:56: Ken says that state, where there is high carbohydrate availability and high ketones, does not seem like something that would naturally occur and asks if Brianna has any thoughts on this.
33:47: Ken says that you can imagine sparing the glycogen stores for when you really need them would be a great advantage in many sports, as most sports are both aerobic and anaerobic.
34:18: Dawn asks if ketone esters are best utilized as a training aid, as opposed to being acutely administered before an event.
36:03: Ken says that there is evidence that the HVMN ketone ester improves athletic performance. He then asks Brianna about its effects on cognitive performance.
37:10: Dawn asks Brianna to talk about some of the animal studies that are being conducted on ketone esters and their impact on physical and cognitive performance.
38:37: Dawn asks Brianna to explain the difference between ketone salts and ketone esters, and to also give an overview of what the advantages and disadvantages are for each.
41:56: Ken asks how Brianna envisions people using the ketone esters as part of their nutrition plan for a multi-day race.
42:55: Ken asks Brianna if there has been a study to look at the effects of chronic ketone ester administration on performance.
44:27: Dawn asks Brianna to discuss the study in cell metabolism that was published last year that looked at ketone metabolism in elite athletes.
47:15: Dawn asks how Brianna blinded people to which was the ester and which was not during these studies, since the ester tastes bitter.
48:57: Ken asks if it would be feasible to put the agents into capsules to avert the possible confounding effects of distinguishing the rather unique taste.
49:55: Brianna believes there are important factors in running a successful and accurate sports science study.
53:00: Brianna discusses where ketones fit in the hierarchy of fuel selection during exercise.
55:53: Ken says that the terminology, ketone and ketone esters, are not synonymous, and asks Brianna to give an overview.
57:06: STEMTALK BLURB
57:31: Dawn asks Brianna if administration of ketone esters in the context of moderate carb intake overcomes the alleged problem of reduced PDH activity associated with ketogenic diets. She then asks Brianna if she has measured PDH activity.
58:06: Ken asks Brianna if you could, by use of the ester for an athlete that was in ketosis, have the best of both worlds.
1:00:07: Dawn says that ketone supplementation has a lot of potential to improve the performance of elite athletes. She then asks Brianna if weekend warriors or average recreational athletes can benefit from ketone supplementation.
1:01:21: Ken discusses a study recently conducted in Australia which reported that an acetoacetate diester slightly decreased performance in elite cyclists.
1:04:16: Ken comments that the authors’ speculated that the observed performance decrement was the result of elevated acetoacetate levels, which he noted, does not make sense. He also noted that all of the study participants experienced GI distress which could easily have accounted for the performance decrement.
1:06:29: Dawn asks Brianna if she thinks this study will further confuse the topic of ketone supplementation.
1:07:37: Ken says that science and religion are two different things, and that particularly in nutrition science and topics related to nutrition, it is an emotional hot button, and people get all spun up about it.
1:08:54: Ken discusses again how many sports are a mixture of aerobic and anaerobic work. He then asks Brianna how athletes will use exogenous ketones in sports with varying degrees of intensity.
1:12:39: Ken comments that it is where the ketogenic diet will have the largest effect for the aging population, both in terms of general wellness and signaling effects, with respect to avoidance of sarcopenia.
1:12:51: Brianna talks about how athletes who are already on a ketogenic diet will use ketone esters.
1:13:47: Ken discusses the increase in BDNF after exercise and a study by Sleiman et al. that showed that HDACs inhibit the production of BDNF. Also, that beta-hydroxybutyrate inhibits HDACS, which would likely increase the production of BDNF. He then asks Brianna if she has any thoughts on whether exogenous ketone ester, such as the HVMN product, might also elevate BDNF.
1:16:00: Ken says that we know that the endogenous ketones have powerful signaling functions, but one of the most fascinating questions is about which of those the ketone ester will provide equivalent or better.
1:17:50: Ken says that it is possible to have high ketone elevations with the ketogenic diet, but it makes it difficult for the people doing the study.
1:22:41: Dawn says that it was noted in a recent paper from a group at UC Davis that ketones, and specifically beta-hydroxybutyrate, potentiated mTOR-1 signaling in skeletal muscle. She then asks Brianna if there is reason to believe this occurs in other tissues or organs of the body, where a potentiating mTOR might not be welcome.
1:23:20: Ken says that they found that it was tissue specific, so the level in the liver was not elevated in that study.
1:24:55: Brianna talks about the public’s response to the launch of the HVMN ketone ester, and gives a rundown of common questions people have been asking.
1:27:51: Brianna shares what her diet is like now that she has retired from competitive rowing.
1:30:42: Ken comments that Mark Mattson discussed intermittent fasting on STEM-Talk on an earlier episode.
1:31:13: Dawn comments that it seems as though most researchers also have a social media presence today, allowing people to collaborate more. She then asks Brianna if she is active on social media.
1:34:02: Ken and Dawn thank Brianna for the interview.
Episode 53: Brian Caulfield on wearable technologies and the potential of electrical muscle stimulation
Today’s interview is with Dr. Brian Caulfield, the dean of physiotherapy at the University College Dublin, where he also is one of the directors of Ireland’s largest research center, the INSIGHT Center for Data Analytics.
Brian is especially known for the work he is doing with wearable and mobile sensing technologies and how their use is opening new avenues for human performance evaluation and enhancement in areas like elite sports to rehabilitation medicine to gerontology. He also is a leader in the use of electrical muscle stimulation, also known as EMS, which is being used in health and sports.
Brian also is the principal investigator in Ireland’s industry-led Connected Health Technology Center and is the overall project coordinator for the Connected Health Early Stage Researcher Support System, which is Europe’s first networked Connected Health PhD training program.
Brian graduated with a bachelor’s Degree in Physiotherapy, a master’s in Medical Science, and a PhD in Medicine from the University College of Dublin. He has co-authored more than 180 research publications and six patents. He also has supervised more than 30 master’s of science graduate research and PhD projects to completion.
Brian was the recent recipient of the prestigious 2017 University College Dublin Innovation Award, which recognized his work in the development of a connected health ecosystem in Ireland.
Links:
https://www.insight-centre.org/users/brian-caulfield
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brian_Caulfield
Electrical stimulation counteracts muscle decline in seniors
Show notes:
3:52: Brian talks about growing up in Dublin and how he dreamed of becoming a professional athlete rather than a scientist.
4:35: Brian explains that as a kid he started noticing on TV how a couple of therapists would run onto the soccer field whenever a player was injured. That’s what first gave him the idea of going into physical therapy.
6:08: After receiving his physical therapy degree from the University College of Dublin, Brian tells the story of how he was about to leave for a job in Chicago when the director of the university lab offered Brian a job as a research assistant, which led him to stay in school and pursue a master’s degree.
8:02: Dawn asks Brian what it was like as a 21-year-old to work in a lab side by side with biomedical engineers and scientists on a project that looked at how reflex excitability is modulated throughout the different phases of the walking cycle in stroke patients when compared to patients who have a healthy gait.
11:45: Ken asks Brian what it was like to work in the United States after receiving his master’s degree.
13:30: Dawn asks Brian about returning to Dublin to work on a doctorate and his decision to focus his research on ankle sprains, which is one of the most common non-contact injuries suffered across all sports.
18:04: Brian talks about the limitations of studying athletes in the laboratory and how accelerometers made it possible to do research in the field.
20:57: Dawn asks Brian to expand on how his collaboration with biomedical engineers and computer scientists enabled them to develop wearable accelerometers and sensors to measure human movement.
23:34: Ken asks how this technology, which was developed to improve athletic performance, led to other technologies that were applied to accessing older adults who are at risk of falls.
27:24: Dawn points out that it was this research that led Brian to be named the University College Dublin’s site director for the Insight Center, which is one of Europe’s largest data analytics research organizations with more than 450 researchers. Dawn asks Brian to talk about Insight and its structure and purpose.
29:26: Dawn talks about how much fun it was using inertial measurement units, known as IMUs, during an undersea mission with NASA to assess the technology’s future use in looking at astronaut vestibular function on return to Earth. She then asks Brian to talk about other potential clinical and fitness applications when using IMU technology?
32:11: Dawn asks Brian to talk about his recently published study investigating whether the addition of inertial sensor data can provide additional insight into the nature of postural stability deficits for post-concussion monitoring protocol.
34:34: STEM-Talk blurb
35:02: Dawn asks how it’s possible that a measure of motor performance can help predict that a player is more likely to sustain a contact injury, which, Dawn points out, seems counterintuitive.
37:02: Ken asks Brian if his work on reducing the number of concussions among rugby players could have applications in a sport like American football.
38:25: Ken asks Brian to provide an overview of the different types of electrical muscle stimulation, also known as EMS, that are being used in health and sports today.
41:08: Ken asks how popular systems such as Compex and PowerDot fit into this spectrum of devices?
41:51: Dawn talks about how EMS was used in the former Soviet block for sports training back in the 1950s, and asks Brian about the early excitement and the subsequent perspective that has emerged over the years with respect to EMS and sport training.
45:49: Ken says the comfort factor of EMS is a big deal and that he has allowed friends to borrow a PowerDot EMS unit and that when they increase the settings they often stop using the unit because it’s uncomfortable. Ken asks Brian about the need, particularly for the aging population, for a more comfortable approach.
47:39: Ken talks about the late Charlie Francis who was a strong advocate of EMS and used it with all of his sprinters, including Ben Johnson. Francis said there were four mains uses for EMS in sports: enhancement of maximum strength; as a means of facilitating recovery; as a rehabilitation tool; and as a motor learning and muscle recruitment tool. Ken asks Brian if all four uses, or just a few of them, were valid uses.
49:51: Ken mentions that exercise programs have long been based on the premise that resistance training will be largely ineffective unless it’s carried out at something like 70% of maximal voluntary force, and that it should last roughly 20 or 30 minutes. This level of intensity and duration has been seen as necessary to facilitate proteolysis, the breakdown of proteins in the muscle which is generally seen as the precursor of muscle protein synthesis. However, some training methods such as electrical muscle stimulation and blood flow restriction training are explicitly trying to avoid any extensive breakdown of proteins in the muscle. Ken asks Brian to share his thoughts on this.
52:01: Brian talks about muscle fiber types and their characteristics as Dawn mentions that one of the primary interests in EMS arises from its application in building strength in both younger and older populations.
53:51: Ken talks about how as people age, they lose power more quickly than strength, and strength more quickly than muscle mass. This age-related decrease in muscle mass is fiber type specific and involves a loss of size of the glycolytic type-two fibers rather than the slow oxidative type-one fibers. Ken mentions an interesting 2013 paper from a German and Italian research team that reported EMS produces an increase in the size of the fast-type fibers in aging humans. In particular, the researchers reported a 4% increase in the percentage of the faster fiber type after 24 sessions spread across nine weeks. Ken asks Brian for his thoughts on this.
56:05: Dawn mentions that the ideal protocol for EMS for sarcopenia should focus on an increase in muscle strength, and then improvement in type-two muscle fibers with respect to diameter and percentage. Dawn ask Brian which frequencies are best for type-two fibers with the aging population.
57:23: Because human space flight is very much like accelerated aging, Brian talks about the huge potential of EMS with respect to long-duration human space flight, and gives an overview of the work that the European Space Agency is doing in this area.
59:31: Brian talks about the use of muscle stimulation to elicit a cardiovascular exercise effect, particularly for spinal cord injured patients.
1:02:14: Dawn points out the Brian has managed to develop a protocol that elicits an aerobic exercise effect in simulating shivering, and asks Brian how comfortable that is. Brian talks about how it’s not comfortable at all.
1:03:09: Brian expands on work he’s doing to overcome the comfort issues by describing how he worked with a company to develop a multi-path approach to delivering current into the body, which essentially means using non-standard pathways for current flow that are shared between arrays of very large electrodes rather than single pairs of electrodes over individual muscles.
1:04:15: Brian talks about using the application with different populations that range from elite athletes to various clinical populations. These populations include people with type-two diabetes; chronic obstructive pulmonary disease; sedentary adults; the elderly; and people with spinal-cord injuries.
1:06:42: Dawns asks Ken if he still uses EMS and what tips he has for STEM-Talk listeners. Ken talks about how the new PowerDot system is useful on long-duration flights, but that it can cause unwanted attention from seatmates and the flight crew. Ken and Brian describe incidents that happened to them on flights.
1:09:32: Dawns asks Brian to explain arthrogenic muscle inhibition and the conditions under which it typically occurs.
1:12:51: Ken asks Brian to follow up on his answer by describing an athlete who might show up at Brian’s office with chronic interior knee pain and demonstrates inhibition of the quad complex, specifically VMO, and also shows some associated atrophy. Ken wonders what role EMS could play, and what specific order of treatments Brian might try on such a patient.
1:16:00: Dawn mentions that University College Dublin honored Brian with its 2017 Innovation Award. Brian talks about how wonderful it was that his family was there for the presentation.
1:17:37: Brian talks about how much he enjoys running and that there’s nothing he loves more than being up in the Wicklow Mountains running.
1:18:53: Interview ends.
Episode 52: Nina Teicholz on saturated fat, U.S. dietary guidelines, and the shortcomings of nutrition science
Investigative journalist Nina Teicholz joined Ken and Dawn remotely from a studio in New York City in mid-September for a fascinating discussion about the history and pitfalls of nutrition science.
Teicholz is the author of the international bestseller, “The Big Fat Surprise: Why Butter, Meat & Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet.”
The Economist named it the number one science book of 2014 and the Journal of Clinical Nutrition wrote, “This book should be read by every scientist and every nutritional science professional.”
Nina began her journalism career as a reporter for National Public Radio. She went on to write for many publications, including the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, The New Yorker, and The Economist. She attended Yale University and Stanford University where she studied biology and majored in American Studies. She has a master’s degree from Oxford University and served as associate director of the Center for Globalization and Sustainable Development at Columbia University.
“The Big Fat Surprise” is credited with upending the conventional wisdom on dietary fat. It challenged the very core of America’s nutrition policy by explaining the politics, personalities, and history of how we came to believe that dietary fat is bad for health. Her book was the first mainstream publication to make the full argument for why saturated fats – the kind found in dairy, meat and eggs – belong in a healthy diet.
The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Mother Jones, the Library Journal and Kirkus Review named “The Big Fat Surprise” one of the best books of 2014. The Economist described Nina’s book as a “nutrition thriller.”
Links:
— Amazon: “Big Fat Surprise” http://amzn.to/2iQemXc
— BMJ: “The scientific report guiding the US dietary guidelines: is it scientific?”
— “A Review of the Dietary Guidelines by the National Academy of Medicine”
— “Statistical Review of US Macronutrient Consumption date, 1965-2011”
— “What if Bad Fat is Actually Good for You?”
Show notes:
4:10: Interview begins with Nina talking about how her father, an engineer who also enjoyed computer science, sparked her interest in science.
5:41: Dawn asks Nina if she would share the story about her failed fruit-fly experiment in high school.
8:07: Nina talks about how an assignment to do a story on trans fats led her to become friends with journalist Gary Taubes, the author of “Good Calories, Bad Calories,” whom Dawn and Ken interviewed on episode 37 of STEM-Talk.
11:40: Dawn talks about an article Nina wrote for Men’s Health Magazine titled, “What If Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You?” It’s the article where Nina first laid out her case that saturated fats may not be bad for people’s health and might actually be good for people. Dawn asks Nina if she got pushback on that article.
14:07: Dawn asks about a paper Nina published in BMJ titled, “The Scientific Report Guiding the US Dietary Guidelines: Is It Scientific?” Dawn asks Nina to describe what happened when 180 scientists wrote a letter asking BMJ to retract the paper.
19:52: Dawn comments about how the pushback to the article seemed to violate the very process that science is supposed to follow.
21:30: Ken comments about the orchestrated effort to make Nina look bad, which leads Nina to highlight the support she received from BMJ and its editor Fiona Godlee.
22:55: Nina talks about the difficulty a journalist faces when challenging the work of scientists from institutions like Harvard and Yale.
24:16: Ken mentions how we’re seeing more and more dogma dressed up as science, which that leads to a discussion between Ken, Dawn and Nina about the shortcomings of nutrition science.
30:32: Dawn comments that Nina has been quoted as saying that institutionalized science is an oxymoron, and once institutions started adopting the principle that saturated fat caused heart disease, the scientists who knew better were silenced. Dawn asks Nina to expand on this.
35:42: STEM-Talk blurb.
36:12: Nina talks about a review of the dietary guidelines by the National Academy of Medicine that came out just the day before her interview with Ken and Dawn in September. The report concluded that the scientific rigor used for the dietary guidelines was not up to par.
39:05: With a population that is genetically and environmentally diverse, and in the current age of information where individuals can increasingly access data to personalize their own approach to health, Ken asks Nina if there is still an important role for a standardized set of national dietary guidelines?
40:52: Ken comments that he doesn’t really want the government telling him what to eat or what color to paint his house, and Nina responds that at the very least the government should stop making Americans fat and sick.
41:47: Nina comments that we don’t really know what kind of diet is optimal for the longest life, which leads to a discussion about the zealotry of dietary activists.
43:46: Dawn references a 2015 a paper titled, “Statistical Review of US Macronutrient Consumption Data, 1965–2011: Americans Have Been Following Dietary Guidelines, Coincident With the Rise in Obesity.” The paper was based partly on Nina’s work, and Dawn asks Nina how the study come about.
45:11: The title of the paper suggested that there was a connection between the dietary guidelines and obesity rates, and a back-and-forth conversation ensues between Ken, Nina and Dawn about whether it is possible to determine that.
48:11: Ken comments that the study found the total amount of fat in the diet did not significantly decrease between 1971 and 2011, but the percentage of fat decreased due to an increase in total carbohydrates, as well as total calories. Ken asks Nina if she thinks we can differentiate an effect of the carbohydrates in the diet from this data, or could the problem just be total calories?
49:62: Ken agrees with Nina on the benefits of a low-carb diet and points out that the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) data used in the 2015 study have been questioned by many researchers, with some saying that the majority of participants under-reported many hundreds of calories per day. And since we don’t know what was in those missing calories, Ken wonders if we still can make inferences between population macronutrient intake and overall health?
51:07: Dawn asks Nina about Dr. Tim Noakes of South Africa, who faced a hearing in front of the Health Professions Council of South Africa after a complaint filed by the Association for Dietetics in South Africa. The organization reported Noakes for advising a mother on Twitter that she wean her child onto low-carb, high-fat foods, which Noakes described as real food.
56:04: Ken asks Nina about hecklers at conferences, social media trolling, and all manner of other bullying that is aimed at her and people like Tim Noakes.
57:09: Ken comments there seems to be an unhealthy and largely opaque intersection of money, industry influence, government grants, politics, and national nutrition policy. Ken asks, “How and why did this happen?”
59:50: Dawn comments that when the low-fat diet was officially recommended to the American public in 1961, just one in seven Americans were obese. Today, it’s one in three. It’s interesting that we started the low-fat initiative in an effort to reduce heart disease. But 40 years later, heart disease remains the leading cause of death for both men and women. Dawn asks Nina if she see any signs that the American Heart Association will revisit their recommendations?
1:02:17: Ken observes that the American Diabetes Association also seems to provide poor dietary advice. He points out that a pundit once observed that the Center for Science in the Public Interest is an organization that is neither science, nor in the public interest.
1:05:19: In speaking of a post-factual world driven by unsupported assertions and appeals to emotion, Dawn asks Nina to talk about the documentary, “What the Health.”
1:10:19: Dawn mentions how we’re seeing so many children becoming obese early in life and wonders if it could be a blend between epigenetic effects from previous generations and current food options. Dawn asks Nina if she thinks we are digging ourselves into a hole that will be tough to get out of healthwise as a population?
1:13:29: As we learn more about the gut microbiome, and how it plays a substantial role in our overall health and cognitive state, Dawn asks Nina for her thoughts about how the gut microbiome is impacted when people shift toward a low-fat diet.
1:15:14: Ken tells Nina that Gary Taubes suggested that Ken ask her about her experience spending two weeks with the Inuit in Greenland.
1:18:27: Taubes also suggested that Ken and Dawn ask Nina about the fish oil industry and how it has impacted fisheries worldwide as well as the food chain.
1:19:60: Nina talks about how there is no evidence that people should consume omega three fatty acids for good health.
1:20:59: Ken mentions reports he has seen about omega 3 to omega 6 ratios having a relationship with inflammation levels. Nina discusses the research she has done on the issue.
1:23:33: Ken talks about how giving up animal fats for cooking and shifting to vegetable oils has had a negative effect on people’s health. Nina agrees and discusses the shift and its consequences.
1:26:10: Dawn wonders how a busy person like Nina manages to keep up with the chores of life, and asks Nina how she manages to fit in good habits such as exercise and sleep.
1:28:09: Ken and Dawn thank Nina for appearing on STEM-Talk.
Episode 51: Roger Smith talks about bears, raptors, and life as a field biologist
Today’s episode features field biologist Roger Smith, the founder and chair of the Teton Raptor Center, a rehabilitation facility in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, that annually cares for more than 130 injured birds.
Roger and his wife, Margaret Creel, who also is a field biologist, established the Teton Raptor Center in 1997 as a facility committed to rehabilitating birds of prey.
Both Ken and Dawn have visited the center, which has an education outreach program that reached nearly 37,000 people in 2016. “For our listeners who have never been to the Teton Raptor Center, I can honestly say that a visit to the center and the Grand Teton National Park would be well worth your time,” says Ken at the end of episode 51.
Roger has spent his entire professional career in the natural sciences and environmental education. After high school, he headed off to the University of Montana and started his life as a field biologist researching grizzly bears in northwestern Montana in 1977.
He continued to study grizzly and black bears in Alaska, Maine and Colorado before completing his secondary science degree in 1984. After teaching high school science in Montana, he moved to Jackson Hole in 1985 and joined the resident faculty at the Teton Science School. At the school, he designed and implemented a field-oriented natural science curriculum for adults and children. In 1987, he joined the field staff at the National Outdoor Leadership School and led courses in Wyoming, Texas, Mexico and Kenya. In 1994, Roger completed his Master’s degree in Wildlife Biology and Physiology at the University of Wyoming.
Roger’s research has focused on raptors and ravens of the Grand Teton National Park. His research and papers have been published in a number of peer-reviewed professional journals.
In 1994, he helped initiate and manage the professional residency in environmental education program at the Teton Science School, and was on the faculty there until 1999. He managed all aspects of independent research, including grant and proposal writing.
Roger founded the Teton Raptor Center in 1996 and became the Resident Naturalist at 3Creek Ranch in 2002.
Links:
Teton Raptor Center: http://tetonraptorcenter.org
Raptor Center video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdTB9hcF02k
Roger’s IHMC Ocala lecture: https://www.ihmc.us/lectures/20170308/
Show Notes:
4:26: Ken and Dawn welcome Roger to the show.
4:40: Dawn asks Roger where he grew up and what kind of childhood he had.
6:56: Dawn discusses how Roger went to the University of Montana to study wildlife biology and as a freshman volunteered for a grizzly bear project, where he spent time in the wild analyzing grizzly bear scat.
8:54: Ken recalls a story Roger told him about him working on a black-bear project in 1979, which involved trapping and tagging bears in northern Maine. Ken comments on how this was an interesting time to be in the Maine woods as a young person. Ken then asks Roger if there are any adventures he would like to share from his time in northern Maine.
12:46: Ken comments on how bears are also found in the Tetons and throughout the Yellowstone ecosystem. He discusses how we often see warning signs posted to alert hikers and campers in areas where bears have been active. Ken then asks Roger if we have seen changes in activity in recent times, and if so, what drives those changes.
15:15: Ken discusses how he read a story about a grizzly bear breaking into someone’s garage to eat an elk carcass.
16:22: Dawn says that the grizzly bear is a reclusive animal and asks Roger what we know about its lifecycle.
18:07: Dawn comments that bears are opportunistic omnivores, eating a lot of berries and plants. She then asks Roger to discuss a grizzly’s diet.
20:18: Ken asks Roger to discuss bear hibernation and how it is different than other hibernators.
24:43: Ken discusses his amazement with the management of waste and kidney function, with respect to hibernation.
25:56: Ken discusses how both he and Dawn were at a meeting looking at hibernators, with respect to clues and ideas that may facilitate long duration human spaceflight.
27:31: Dawn comments on how she read that grizzlies can deposit as much as three and a half pounds of fat per day while preparing for hibernation. She then asks Roger what we know about hibernation preparation and physical adaptation in bears.
30:08: Ken asks if the bears came out this past winter when it was particularly cold.
30:34: Dawn asks what changes help bears transition back into normal activity after hibernation.
32:15: Dawn discusses how grizzlies are considered to be keystone predators and asks Roger to explain what this means and what their impact is on the surrounding ecology.
35:22: Ken comments that grizzly bears have recently become more common on the arctic islands and that we have seen grizzly bear-polar bear hybrids. He then asks Roger if we are seeing a breakdown of the species barrier here.
36:58: Dawn asks Roger to talk about how he became an avid bird watcher while he was capturing bears.
39:03: Dawn asks Roger what skills he finds necessary to be a successful field scientist.
42:07: Ken asks Roger if it seems like we have a good supply of future field scientists in the pipeline.
43:38: Ken comments that when the potential scientists find out they cannot charge their smart phones in the wild, it may cause some atrophy in the population.
44:45: STEM-TALK BLURB
45:12: Dawn asks Roger why someone decides to become a wildlife scientist.
47:46: Dawn mentions that after Roger took a few years off from school, he went back to the University of Montana to get a secondary science teaching degree. She then asks Roger what motivated him to become a teacher.
49:46: Dawn asks Roger to discuss his experience in 1985 at the Teton Science School in Teton National Park.
52:01: Ken talks about Roger’s time working with the National Outdoor Leadership School. He asks Roger what NOLS like then and what it’s like now.
53:45: Dawn asks what it was like for Roger to spend a year in Kenya teaching outdoor skills, and why Kenya.
58:10: Dawn says that when Roger came back to the States, he began working at Grand Teton National Park studying falcons. She then asks if this is how the next phase of his career started.
1:00:48: Ken mentions that Roger’s experience studying falcons led him to the graduate program at the University of Wyoming and its school of zoology and physiology. Ken asks Roger what then happened at school to lead him to focus on raptors.
1:03:44: Dawn asks Roger what a raptor exactly is.
1:07:34: Ken asks Roger what the role of raptors is generally in the greater ecosystem.
1:09:19: Dawn asks Roger what the typical lifestyle of a bird of prey is.
1:11:10: Dawn asks Roger what we know about their evolutionary history.
1:13:50: Ken says that birds are remarkably smart, even though their brains are incredibly small. He then asks Roger if he has spent any time observing ravens.
1:15:52: Dawn asks Roger to discuss raptors’ keen eyesight and other adaptations that they show.
1:17:38: Ken comments that raptors can live for a while without eating and asks Roger if we know how they do this.
1:20:06: Ken says it’s interesting how animals have evolved clever mechanisms to deal without food.
1:20:25: Dawn asks what we are seeing in respect to bioaccumulation in these species and if there are specific chemicals or contaminants that are a specific concern.
1:23:02: Dawn asks Roger to discuss an injured owl his colleague found in the woods, which ended up giving Roger the idea of spending more time rehabilitating injured birds.
1:23:42: Dawn discusses how Roger finished his thesis in 1994 and went back to the Teton Science School to help run the graduate program. At this time Roger began bringing injured birds home to live in his house.
1:24:21: Ken asks Roger if it is true that after about ten years of birds in the house, his wife said enough, and this was the start of the Teton Raptor Center.
1:25:51: Ken asks Roger to discuss his role in Three Creek.
1:27:24: Dawn says that Roger is heavily involved with raptor rehabilitation at the Teton Raptor Center. She then asks Roger how often he is treating animals and what kind of injuries he sees.
1:28:21: Dawn asks Roger to walk through what it takes to rehabilitate an animal prior to their return to the wild.
1:29:40: Dawn asks Roger what kind of raptor research studies he is involved in.
1:32:06: Ken asks Roger where new technology and engineering has influenced raptor research.
1:32:38: Ken asks Roger where the future of raptor research may be headed.
1:33:16: Ken asks Roger to talk about what comprises the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.
1:34:45: Dawn asks Roger what he likes to do in his free time.
1:35:40: Dawn and Ken thank Roger for appearing on STEM-Talk.
Episode 50: Ken Ford talks about ketosis, optimizing exercise, and the future direction of science, technology, and culture
Today’s episode features the second of Dawn Kernagis’ two-part interview with her STEM-Talk co-host and IHMC Director Ken Ford. This episode marks a milestone for STEM-Talk. It’s our 50th episode and follows Ken’s formal induction into the Florida Inventor’s Hall of Fame.
In part one of Dawn’s interview, listeners learned about Ken’s childhood and his years as a rock and roll promoter back in the ‘70s. Ken even shared an interesting story about how he went from being a philosophy major to a computer scientist. He also talked about his work in AI and the creation of IHMC and the pioneering work underway at the institute. If you missed episode 49, be sure to check it out.
Part two of Ken’s interview focuses more on his research and personal experience with the ketogenic diet, ketone esters, exercise and ways to extend health span and perhaps longevity. Dawn and Ken also discuss the nature of technical progress
As listeners learned in part one, Ken has a varied background. He is a co-founder of IHMC, which has grown into one of the nation’s premier research organizations with world-class scientists and engineers investigating a broad range of topics.
He also is the author of hundreds of scientific papers and six books. He received his Ph.D. in Computer Science from Tulane University. He is a Fellow of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence, a charter Fellow of the National Academy of Inventors, and a member of the Association for Computing Machinery, the IEEE Computer Society, and the National Association of Scholars.
In 2012, Tulane University named Ford its Outstanding Alumnus in the School of Science and Engineering. The Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence named Dr. Ford the recipient of the 2015 Distinguished Service Award. Also in 2015, Dr. Ford was elected as Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
In January 1997, Dr. Ford was asked by NASA to develop and direct its new Center of Excellence in Information Technology at the Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley, where he also served as Associate Center Director. In July 1999, Dr. Ford was awarded the NASA Outstanding Leadership Medal. That same year, Ford returned to private life in Florida and to IHMC.
In October 2002, President George W. Bush nominated Dr. Ford to serve on the National Science Board (NSB). In 2005, Dr. Ford was appointed and sworn in as a member of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board. In 2007, he became a member of the NASA Advisory Council and on October 16, 2008, Dr. Ford was named as chairman – a capacity in which he served until October 201l.
In August 2010, Dr. Ford was awarded NASA’s Distinguished Public Service Medal – the highest honor the agency confers. In February 2012, Dr. Ford was named to a two-year term on the Defense Science Board and in 2013, he became a member of the Advanced Technology Board which supports the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.
Links:
IHMC website:
https://www.ihmc.us
Ken Ford web page:
https://www.ihmc.us/groups/kford/
Florida Inventors Hall of Fame website:
http://www.floridainvents.org
Outside magazine story on Ken Ford and ketogenic diet:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2113406/high-carb-low-fat-ketone-diet
Blood Flow Restriction Device. 15% discount code: IHMC
https://www.gobstrong.com/what-is-b-strong/
BhB Ketone Ester
https://hvmn.com
Powerdot Muscle Stimulator
https://www.powerdot.com/products/powerdot-muscle-stimulator
Papers:
Suppression of Oxidative Stress by b-Hydroxybutyrate, an Endogenous Histone Deacetylase Inhibitor
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Verdin_2013.pdf
Ketone Bodies as Signaling Metabolites
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/TEM-Ketone-bodies-as-signaling-metabolites-2014.pdf
Ketogenic Diet Reduces Midlife Mortality and Improves Memory in Aging Mice
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Verdin-Ketogenic-Mouse-Longevity-Cell-Metab-9-17-1.pdf
A Ketogenic Diet Extends Longevity and Healthspan in Adult Mice
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Ramsey-Mouse-Longevity-Cell-Metab-9-17.pdf
Ketone Bodies Mimic the Life Span Extending Properties of Caloric Restriction
https://www.ihmc.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Ketone-bodies-mimic-lifespan-extending-properties-of-CR_Veech_Review_2017.pdf
Show notes:
7:06: Dawn begins part two of her interview with Ken by pointing out that some of the work IHMC is doing in terms of human performance is focused on nutritional approaches, including ketogenic diets and ketone esters. Dawn mentions that Ken was an early adopter of the ketogenic diet and that some people even refer to him as “the keto guy.” She then asks him when he first embraced a ketogenic diet and what attracted him to it.
8:06: Ken Talks about his long experience with the ketogenic diet and its effect on body composition.
10:30: Ken discusses how he became interested in ketone esters.
12:34: Dawn asks about research that seems to show that elevated levels of circulating ketone bodies have the potential to protect people from some of the diseases of aging.
12:47: Ken discusses healthspan, lifespan, and bending the aging curve.
14:04: Ken notes that, in his view, it should not be surprising that shifting something as fundamental as the fuel substrate for our metabolism would have widespread effects.
14:19: Ken talks about the epidemic of insulin resistance, diabetes, and obesity.
15:20: Dawn asks Ken to discuss the relatively newly discovered effects of ketone bodies which go well beyond their well-appreciated metabolic roles … and that might have various anti-aging effects.
16:59: Ken asserts that many of the most exciting effects of ketones are not only those arising from their role as an energy source but also that they play critically important signaling functions. Ken talks about the research showing that the ketone bodies are HDAC inhibitors and seem to link environmental cues, such as diet, to the regulation of aging.
17:23: Ken explains how HDACs inhibit BDNF and as mentioned above, ketones inhibit HDACs … thereby increasing BDNF.
18:20: Ken discusses two new papers showing a substantial extension of healthspan and lifespan in adult mice.
20:57: Dawn asks about the effect of the ketogenic diet on the maintenance of muscle and strength as people age.
24:48: Dawn asks Ken about the ketogenic diet and IGF-1.
26:45: Dawn notes that stem cells become less effective with age and asks about the implications of this phenomenon for maintenance of muscle.
27:37: Ken explains what the ketogenic diet is.
29:48: Dawn points out the Google search term “ketogenic diet” now outnumbers searches for Paleo diets. She asks Ken if he thought this would be the case back in 2006 when he first returned to a ketogenic diet.
31:18: Dawn asks Ken about what he sees as the primary benefit of blood-flow restriction training and how he uses it in his training.
34:25: Dawn asks Ken about what other exercise methods he employs in his training to optimize muscle mass and minimize potential injury.
34:38: Ken mentions electrical muscle stimulation (PowerDot), kettlebells, resistance training, Tabata sessions, and hiking in Wyoming and Maine.
35:37: Ken discusses hierarchical sets as employed in resistance training.
36:27: Dawn ask Ken if he “goes to failure” when engaged in resistance training.
37:13: Dawn asks Ken if has any thoughts on eccentric movements when engaged in resistance training.
38:50: Dawn asks Ken about NASA funded research at IHMC, led by Peter Neuhaus, aimed at developing technology to enable exercise devices for use on long-duration deep space missions.
39:41: Dawn mentions that when she first met Ken that she was doing research on apolipoprotein E in a neurocritical care laboratory. She asks Ken for his take on APOE in athletics and other approaches when it comes to harnessing people’s genetic information for optimized health.
42:03: Dawn asks Ken to describe a typical day and a typical week in the life of Ken Ford, including what his diet looks like and what he typically eats for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
44:03: Dawn wonders how many expressos, which Ken refers to as the elixir of the mind, he drinks in a day.
45:06: Dawn asks Ken about his time at NASA’s Ames Research Center.
46:06: She asks Ken to talk about his experience on the National Science Board and whether there were any stories he could share.
48:48: Dawn asks Ken to discuss his service on the NASA Advisory Council.
50:04: Dawn mentions that Ken has been a member of the National Science Board, NASA Advisory Council, Air Force Science Advisory Board, the Advanced Technology Board for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Defense Science Board. She asks Ken for his takeaways from serving on those boards and councils.
52:10: Dawn notes that during Apollo, NASA annually accounted for roughly 4% of Federal spending and asks Ken if he knows the percentage currently?
52:55: Ken laments that public service is becoming increasingly unpleasant … and that the best people invariably leave as a result.
54:05: Dawn asks Ken to talk about the accelerating rate of technological progress and its effects on society and the individual.
54:25: Ken distinguishes between “technological change” and “progress.”
57:11: Dawn asks, if taken from a purely technological perspective, are we not advancing faster than ever before?
1:00:54: Dawn plays an audio clip of Ken talking about the zombie apocalypse, which she describes as one of her favorite stories, and asks him to expand upon on it.
1:04:20: Dawn thanks Ken for sitting down for an interview.
Episode 49: Ken Ford talks about AI, its critics, and research at IHMC
On the eve of Ken Ford’s induction into the Florida Inventor’s Hall of Fame, co-host Dawn Kernagis convinced IHMC’s director and CEO that it was the perfect time to have the chairman of STEM-Talk’s double secret selection committee take a turn as a guest on the podcast.
Today’s show features part one of Dawn’s two-part interview with her STEM-Talk co-host Ken Ford. Listeners will learn about Ken’s childhood and background; his early work in computer science and research into AI; as well as the creation of IHMC, which, as our regular listeners know, is a “not-for-profit research lab pioneering groundbreaking technologies aimed at leveraging and extending human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.” In this episode, Ken will share some of the pioneering work underway at IHMC. Dawn also asks Ken about highly vocal critics of AI such as Elon Musk.
Episode 50, the second part of Dawn’s interview with Ken, will transition to a conversation about Ken and IHMC’s research into human performance. Their conversation will cover exercise, the ketogenic diet and ketone esters with the goal of extending health span and perhaps longevity.
In terms of background, Dr. Ken Ford is a co-founder of IHMC, which has grown into one of the nation’s premier research organizations with world-class scientists and engineers investigating a broad range of topics.
Ken is the author of hundreds of scientific papers and six books. He received his Ph.D. in Computer Science from Tulane University. He is a Fellow of the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence, a charter Fellow of the National Academy of Inventors, and a member of the Association for Computing Machinery, the IEEE Computer Society, and the National Association of Scholars.
In 2012, Tulane University named Ford its Outstanding Alumnus in the School of Science and Engineering. The Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence named Dr. Ford the recipient of the 2015 Distinguished Service Award. Also in 2015, Dr. Ford was elected as a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
In January 1997, Dr. Ford was asked by NASA to develop and direct its new Center of Excellence in Information Technology at the Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley, where he also served as Associate Center Director. In July 1999, Dr. Ford was awarded the NASA Outstanding Leadership Medal. That same year, Ford returned to private life in Florida and to IHMC.
In October 2002, President George W. Bush nominated Dr. Ford to serve on the National Science Board (NSB). In 2005, Dr. Ford was appointed and sworn in as a member of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board.
In 2007, he became a member of the NASA Advisory Council and on October 16, 2008, Dr. Ford was named as chairman – a capacity in which he served until October 201l.
In August 2010, Dr. Ford was awarded NASA’s Distinguished Public Service Medal – the highest honor the agency confers. In February 2012, Dr. Ford was named to a two-year term on the Defense Science Board and in 2013, he became a member of the Advanced Technology Board which supports the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.
Links:
IHMC website:
https://www.ihmc.us
Ken Ford web page:
https://www.ihmc.us/groups/kford/
Florida Inventors Hall of Fame website:
http://www.floridainvents.org
Outside magazine story on Ken Ford and ketogenic diet:
https://www.outsideonline.com/2113406/high-carb-low-fat-ketone-diet
Bulletin Atomic Scientists 2014
Show notes:
6:41: Dawn welcomes Ken to the show.
7:04: Dawn asks Ken to talk about his childhood
8:12: Dawn points out that Ken moved around a lot because his father was in the Navy and asks him what that was like.
8:20: Dawn mentions that Ken lived in Guantanamo, also known as GITMO. She asks him what it was like to live there as a young child.
8:56: Dawn talks about how when Ken started high school, he became passionate about wrestling and began shaving off weight by cutting back on carbs. She asks Ken what drew him to wrestling in the first place.
9:48: Dawn asks Ken to discuss the mental aspect of wrestling.
10:33: Dawn asks Ken if he was always interested in science.
11:15: Dawn asks Ken if he had any influential teachers in high school.
13:56: Dawn discusses how before Ken became a scientist, he was a rock and roll promoter. She then asks Ken how this happened.
16:06: Dawn asks Ken if it was during this time that he met Jeff “Skunk” Baxter, previously interviewed on STEM-Talk.
16:37: Dawn shares a funny story about how her sister used to work with Richard “Paco” Zimmer, one of the best in the business.
17:25: Dawn discusses how Ken enlisted in the Navy after promoting rock and roll. She goes on to say how this is what led to Ken becoming interested in computer science, even though he thought computers were about the most “unfun thing that the Navy could assign him to do.” She then asks Ken to talk about how the Navy pushed him into computer science.
21:38: Dawn discusses how Ken did his Masters in System Science, while in the Navy, at the University of West Florida. He then went to Tulane for his doctorate. Dawn asks Ken how an ex-athlete and philosophy major decides to get a doctorate in computer science, and whether or not people thought he was crazy.
22:46: Dawn says that after Tulane, Ken returned to the University of West Florida in 1988 and became the assistant professor in computer science, and then rather quickly became a full professor. She then asks Ken what research in AI looked like at the time.
23:57: Dawn asks Ken what the focus of his AI research was back then.
28:55: STEM-Talk Blurb
29:21: Dawn discusses how Ken is not a fan of the term artificial intelligence, and that he says that amplified intelligence is a better way to refer to AI. She then asks Ken to talk about this.
30:54: Dawn says that Ken and his colleague, Pat Hayes, have said that the Turing test has misdirected the ambitions of people working in AI and has confused the public, particularly the media. She then asks Ken to describe the Turing test and talk about why it has become problematic.
33:38: Dawn discusses how AI techniques like machine learning are now used for many other applications. She then asks Ken if he could have ever imagined this kind of future when he began working with AI in the 1980s.
35:54: Dawn references a story from the New York Times that discusses a meeting Elon Musk had with governors, where he said that they should adopt AI legislation before “robots start going down the street and killing people.” He also tweeted that AI going rogue was more of a risk than North Korea. Dawn asks Ken his opinion on this.
39:21: Dawn reads Ken a quote from the co-founder of the Center for Complex Systems Research at the University of Illinois. She then asks Ken what he thinks about the comment.
41:50: Dawn then discusses a story from David Fries about the brilliancy of the name Institute for Human and Machine Cognition. Dawn asks Ken if he intentionally placed the word human before machine in the institute’s name.
42:42: Dawn comments on how impressed she is by the range of research done at IHMC. She asks Ken to give listeners an overview of the work.
43:44: Dawn shares an audio clip about self-reinvention from a video produced for Ken’s induction into the Florida Inventors Hall of Fame.
44:22: Dawn asks Ken to talk about how he has constantly reinvented himself.
45:13: Dawn discusses how Ken has created a supportive framework at IHMC that is flexible enough so that the researchers and scientists there can also reinvent themselves. She then asks Ken how he came up with this concept.
48:04: Dawn comments how one of the things that makes it possible is the flat structure of IHMC and asks Ken to elaborate on this.
49:18: Dawn discusses how IHMC has begun doing research on human performance in extreme environments. She then asks Ken what brought about the interest in human performance in extreme environments, and that evolved into an arm of IHMC.
Episode 48: Dr Tommy Wood, part 2, discusses insulin resistance and the role of diet in athletic performance
Today’s episode features the second of our two-part interview with Dr. Tommy Wood, a U.K. trained MD/PhD who now lives in the U.S.
Part one covered Tommy’ background and education and what led him spend most of his academic career studying multiple sclerosis and ways to treat babies with brain injuries.
Part two of our interview focuses on Tommy’s other passions: nutritional approaches to sports performance and metabolic disease.
But before we get into Tommy’s background, we want to take a moment to thank our listeners for helping STEM-Talk win first place in the science category of the 12th Annual People’s Choice Podcast Awards.
The international competition featured more than 2,000 nominees in 20 categories. STEM-Talk also was a runner-up in the People’s Choice Award, the grand prize of the competition.
As we mentioned earlier, Tommy is U.K. trained MD/PhD who received an undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of Cambridge before attending medical school at the University of Oxford. He recently completed a PhD in physiology and neonatal brain metabolism at the University of Washington. He is now a senior fellow at the university researching neonatal brain injury.
In part one of his STEM-Talk interview, Tommy also talked about how he is the incoming president of the Physicians for Ancestral Health, an international organization of physicians, healthcare professionals and medical students that specializes in ancestral health principles for the prevention and treatment of illness.
Tommy’s interest sports performance stems from his background as an experienced rowing, endurance, and strength coach who combines evolutionary principles with modern biochemical techniques to optimize performance. He primarily performs this work with Nourish Balance Thrive, a functional medicine clinic based in California that works largely with athletes, where he is the chief medical officer.
Links:
Physicians for Ancestral Health – http://ancestraldoctors.org
Physicians for Ancestral Health – http://ancestraldoctors.org
Nourish Balance Thrive – http://www.nourishbalancethrive.com
NBT automated performance analysis: http://nbt.ai
Primal Endurance podcast (ketogenic diets, athletic longevity, etc.): http://primalendurance.libsyn.com/101-dr-tommy-wood
2) High Intensity Health podcast (ketogenic diets and gut health): http://highintensityhealth.com/tommy-wood-keto-diet-endotoxin-gut-health-bacterial-diversity/
Show notes:
3:37: The interview resumes.
3:43: Ken discusses how many, perhaps even most, adults are now insulin resistant to some degree, which negatively impacts many aspects of both health and performance, and is associated with most modern chronic diseases. Ken then asks Tommy if there are any underlying processes that he can see that tie these diseases together.
7:27: Ken comments on how in 1927 they had the sensible practice of starting a diabetic patient on a low-carb diet, which is still not current practice now in many places.
8:04: Tommy discusses how it is good to have symptom control with diabetes. Ken and Tommy discuss the many advantages of donating blood.
10:16: Ken asks Tommy if he has any issues giving blood in the United States given that he is from the UK which experienced mad-cow disease.
11:40: Ken asks Tommy if he checks his athletes’ ferritin levels and tries and keep them in a certain range, and if so, if he has a preferred range.
12:17: Dawn discusses how in addition to Tommy’s academic work at the University of Washington, he is also very active as the Chief Scientific Officer of Nourish Balance Thrive (NBT), an online company using advanced biochemical testing to optimize performance in athletes. Dawn asks Tommy to discuss Nourish Balance Thrive, and how the company works to optimize the health and performance of athletes.
14:41: Ken comments on how Tommy has a relatively homogeneous population if he is focused on endurance athletes, making it particularly interesting because people often confuse athletic performance with health.
15:37: Dawn mentions how Chris at NBT has been training machine-learning algorithms to predict biochemical patterns in athletes. She then asks Tommy to talk about how this fits in with his current work and why he thinks it is an important approach for the future of medicine in general.
17:52: Ken comments on how Chris is using XG Boost, a well-regarded open-source software library, as the machine learning tool. Ken mentions that XG Boost is an implementation of gradient boosting which is a form of supervised learning which has enjoyed broad success. Another nice feature of XG Boost is that its open source, allowing one to integrate it with a variety of other software packages.
19:25: Ken says how a sensible next step may be to identify another relatively homogeneous population and do it again.
20:48: Dawn comments on how over-training, under-recovery, nutrient deficiencies, or hormonal imbalances seem to be much more prevalent today. She then asks Tommy if this is because we can spot or diagnose these more regularly, because athletes are training at a higher intensity and volume, or because of changes in the environment.
22:39: Dawn asks Tommy how NBT’s biomarker panel was developed in the first place, and how he chose the specific markers and data that he is collecting for the panel.
25:16: Dawn discusses how she has done a fair amount of work looking at biomarkers of different disease processes and injury, and how one topic that arose several times was variability. She then asks Tommy how he can address this potential for variability, and if he is collecting data for long-term analysis.
27:14: Ken and Tommy briefly discuss the ŌURA Ring.
28:32: Dawn asks Tommy if he sees genetic testing playing a larger future role in his work with athletes.
29:47: Ken comments on how this is going to be a growing area. It was initially over-hyped, such as people looking at a particular gene that would determine effectiveness in a sport. However, more variants of specific genes are being validated with respect to human performance and resilience.
31:33: Dawn notes that it is sometimes difficult to get actionable results from genetic testing.
32:03: Dawn asks Tommy how he might use carbohydrate restriction in his work with athletes, and if there are any contexts where the low carbohydrate diet could be detrimental.
34:33: Ken comments on how the discussion reminds him of Jeff Volek’s phrase, “well-formulated ketogenic diet.” Ken also stressed the importance of blood testing for ketone levels.
35:58: STEMTALK BLURB
36:29: Dawn comments on how Tommy and Chris have developed a product called Phat Fibre. She then asks Tommy to discuss why he prefers it to other MCT oils and powders found in the market.
38:34: Ken comments how he is a huge fan of Phat Fibre, and how he shared the product with his friend who is a cyclist.
38:57: Dawn asks Tommy to discuss another product he and Chris created, Hormetea.
42:10: Dawn asks Tommy to talk about Nourish Balance Thrive’s podcast.
43:05: Ken discusses how ketogenic diets naturally bring insulin down in many athletes, and as a result, they experience a decrease in electrolyte retention. Ken then asks Tommy if he has also seen this decrease in electrolyte retention and the need for many athletes to supplement electrolytes.
44:23: Ken asks Tommy about carnitine supplementation for those on a ketogenic diet.
45:21: Ken asks Tommy if he usually recommends both common forms of carnitine supplementation for his athletes.
45:40: Dawn asks Tommy if he has any thoughts on the supposedly ‘lifespan” or “healthspan” enhancing supplements, such as NAD or nicotinamide riboside to increase NAD+ levels?
48:11: Dawn comments on how there are now ketone salts on the market and there will soon be ketone esters also. She then asks Tommy what his thoughts are on exogenous ketones in the context of human performance, health span, and disease.
51:47: Ken comments on how it would be surprising if the effects of ketogenic diets and exogenous ketones are identical. He goes on to assert that this is an area where the research needs to happen soon and asks Tommy about his thoughts on this.
54:02: Dawn discusses how Tommy has mentioned that exercise is a key trigger for longevity and yet there are people who assert that exercise is detrimental to lifespan. She then asks Tommy what he would say to those people and if there are any types of exercise that have the upside without the negatives associated with some forms of exercise.
56:40: Dawn asks Tommy what he would propose as an approach for investigating whether an intervention has an impact on human longevity.
1:00:56: Ken says there may be a placebo effect for someone who is convinced that they exercise more than their peers.
1:01:13: Ken asks Tommy about ruinous empathy.
1:03:06: Ken says that he would note that context is important when engaging in radical candor.
1:03:42: Ken asks Tommy if he thinks there is a dogma displacement inertia problem in science and medicine, and if so, whether there anything to do about it other than be patient.
1:06:19: Ken and Dawn thank Tommy for joining them.