Episode 6: Michael Turner discusses LIGO & the detection of gravitational waves
Michael Turner is best known for having coined the term “dark energy” in 1998. A theoretical cosmologist at the University of Chicago, Turner has dedicated his career to researching the Big Bang, dark energy and dark matter.
He wrote his Ph.D. thesis on gravitational waves—back in 1978—and nearly four decades later—had a bird’s eye view of their recent detection. Turner was assistant director of the National Science Foundation (NSF), which funded the development of LIGO, which stands for the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory.
This large-scale physics experiment and observatory, which was led by researchers at MIT and CalTech, discovered, on September 15th, 2015, the existence of gravitational waves via a chirping noise signaling the merger of two black holes over a billion light-years away. The scientists announced their discovery on February 11th, 2016.
In this episode, Turner interprets this momentous finding, and talks about some of the big player scientists who worked on LIGO. And some of the behind the scenes activities involved in a “big science” project such as LIGO.
Talking with STEM-Talk host Dawn Kernagis, Turner also shares his early development as a scientist and an important mentorship that shaped his career.
Turner has been a popular presence at IHMC as a guest lecturer. His IHMC talks have over 20,000 YouTube views. https://youtu.be/-rVBLwKuDXA
He is also co-author, with Edward Kolb, of The Early Universe:
1:18: IHMC CEO Ken Ford explains what gravitational waves are.
4:29: Five-star reviews of STEM-Talk on iTunes are starting to roll in. Ken Ford reads one from ‘Bobalapoet’: “The individuals interviewed are articulate, knowledgeable and able to clearly convey information about their fields. The interviewers and the institute are to be congratulated for putting this series together for my and others’ enjoyment.”
6:18: Turner talks about his childhood interest in science. “I was always a curious kid,” he said. He tinkered with electronics and became a ham radio operator, talking to people all over the world. “I almost electrocuted myself several times.”
7:21: “I like to say that I went to best schools that money could buy, in the 1960s, which was public schools in California.” Turner describes various high school chemistry experiments and “creating UFOS over LA.” He loved math, physics, and chemistry.
8:58: Turner discovers that physics is his real passion, and “math was but a tool.”
9:05: Turner’s high school physics teacher took Turner and friends to Monday night lectures at CalTech. “It just opened up this world of stuff that was going on at the forefront of science,” adding that’s when he fell in love with what would become his undergraduate alma mater.
11:00: For his Ph.D., Turner went to Stanford on the advice of Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman.
11:36: Turner went to the University of Chicago in 1978 as an Enrico Fermi fellow. Initially his plan was to return to California as soon as possible, but “I’ve been happily in Chicago ever since.”
12:09: David Schramm, an astrophysicist and Big Bang theory expert, brought Turner to Chicago and mentored him until Schramm’s tragic death from a plane crash in 1997. The two met at CalTech, in the gym, where Schramm was assistant wrestling coach.
14:45: “Dave curved the path of my career from astrophysics and gravitational waves to early universe cosmology.”
16:41: “[Dave’s] toughness and his enthusiasm for science are things that I take with me to this day.”
17:00: “[Dave] really changed the face of cosmology and astronomy at the University of Chicago.”
17:25: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
17:58: Turner discusses his passion for bicycling. He says Chicago is a great place to train because the weather makes you “Chi-town tough.”
18:58: Turner elaborates on calling the gravitational waves discovery “the last big prediction of the theory of relativity.”
20:58: Turner calls the discovery “a Galileo moment.” “Four hundred years ago Galileo turned the telescopes to the sky, and opened their eyes to the universe, and now we have this new window on the universe.”
22:55: “Galileo would be smiling” about the discovery since he said “make measurable that which is not measurable.” Turner says the challenge in building a gravitational wave detector was to be able to measure such a small distance change over such a large distance.
24:00: When Turner wrote his thesis on gravitational waves in 1978, he thought their discovery was around the corner. It took fifty years.
24:38: The NSF thought LIGO was “moonshot worthy to do.”
25:20: Turner talks about some of the scientists who worked on tools used during LIGO such as the Michelson interferometer (invented by Alan Michelson.)
26:40: LIGO uses lasers and interferometry.
30:11: NSF looked at the proposal for LIGO in the early 1990s and said, “This is a lofty goal. Let’s do this.” CalTech and MIT led the way.
31:05: Turner credits Barry Barish, experimental physicist at CalTech, with really getting the project going.
31:40: LIGO was done in two phases.
33:19: Turner had to make a recommendation to the Director of NSF and subsequently to the National Science Board (which has oversight on large-scale science projects) about continuing the project into the second phase. “It took more than a year for the Board to decide, but they stuck with it.”
35:14: “LIGO is going to earn its O, and become a real observatory. This is going to become a new window on the universe.”
37:00: This discovery qualifies as “Big Science,” a relatively new, post WWII phenomenon.
37:30: “I always harken back to John Kennedy’s quote about going to the moon. He talked about how going to the moon is really hard and said, ‘that’s why we’re doing it.’”
38:18: “Ken Ford was one of these wise people on the National Science Board. They’re the adult supervision in the room.” Turner explains that the Board had to do due diligence to make sure the project was worthy of continuing.
41:31: “These people [National Science Board] were doing a service to the country: by making sure we were spending the money wisely. And also making sure we were taking the calculated risks” behind those really big advances.
43:24: “This is an example where we as Americans can be very proud. Now, other nations including Japan, Germany, and the UK are making investments, but we really led.”
46:48: A year from now, Virgo, the European detector for gravitational waves located near Pisa, Italy, will be done with its upgrades.
49:38: The legacy of the gravitational waves? “The most exciting thing is the thing we haven’t thought of. If history is any guide, there will be wonderful discoveries that will take us in new directions when we open up a new window on the universe.”
51:00: Turner’s next STEM-Talk podcast will be on dark energy and dark matter.
51:23: Also soon up on STEM-Talk: Cal-Tech physicist Barry Barish. Ford says, “I can say with complete confidence that LIGO would not have been successfully constructed without Barry.”
Episode 5: Margaret Leinen discusses health of the oceans
Margaret Leinen is a big name in oceanography. She’s the director of the Scripps Oceanographic Institute and vice chancellor of marine sciences at Scripps. She was previously assistant direct of the National Science Foundation, where she worked with IHMC CEO and Director Ken Ford, who calls her “one of the most effective and most pleasant assistant directors of NSF.”
Leinen’s interest in science started early: In high school, she became interested in geology and the history of the earth. When she discovered oceanography in college, she never looked back.
In this episode, Leinen talks about her first dive in the Pacific, where she stumbled onto a huge hydrothermal vent system teeming with worms, clams and other colorful life forms. She also addresses current and future threats to the ocean, a non profit she established to look into mitigating the effects of climate change, and the overall resilience of the oceans.
Host Dawn Kernagis, whose own interest in becoming a scientist—started with her childhood fascination with the ocean—conducts this interview.
3:00: In 2000, NSF director Rita Colwell asked Leinen to come to D.C. to talk to her about working at NSF to coordinate environmental science, engineering and education across entire foundation.
5:32. Leinen says a theme of her career has been cross disciplinary coordination. “I think it takes an optimist, and that’s me, I’m definitely a glass is half full kind of person.”
6:28: “People want to be able to cross boundaries, and most of the time they think that they do, but organizations put obstacles in front of them. My job is to find out what the obstacles are and then embrace them.”
9:10: Leinen talks about her role as director of Scripps, the oldest institute for oceanography, which just celebrated its 114th birthday.
10:00: Scripps has programs with University of California-San Diego medical and pharmacy schools. The oceans influence human health—and “Not just safety of seafood, red tides, or harmful algal blooms.”
10:24: “When you take a big breath of that wonderful salt air, you’re also inhaling thousands of viruses and bacteria from the ocean.” That may be harmful, or it may confer immunity.
11:57: We’ve gone beyond detecting climate change and attributing it to what is natural or human-induced; and we are now interested in how it impacts humans, the land and oceans—and how we must adapt.”
12:34: Understanding all these threads is “deeply inter-disciplinary.”
13:34: Leinen talks about the non-profit she started, the Climate Response Fund, to research “climate engineering,” or mitigating climate change.
17:15: The Climate Response Fund was a group of scientists and policy experts working with the public, governmental groups, non-profits and scientific groups. “It was a facilitator of discussions.”
18:00: In the U.S., research agencies have been reluctant to fund research in climate engineering, both because of the lack of a good policy framework as well as the potential pubic response. European groups have also struggled.
20:58: Leinen describes her early interest in geology as a high school student. Later, in college, “I just got seduced by oceanography.”
23:05: Leinen talks about the Joint Global Ocean Flux Study (JGOFS), which looked at the carbon cycle in the ocean: “The ocean’s role in really the thing that keep the planet alive.”
24:13: The Equitorial Pacific extends across half the planet. “It’s very, very productive,” but that depends on whether it’s an El Nino time or not.
25:05: During normal (non El Nino) times, there is “An upwelling of deep waters,” and the breakdown of organic material by microbes. “During an El Nino this is limited, [the ocean] is not as biologically productive.”
26:50: JGOFS involved nine different two-month long cruises from the U.S. team, with 70 major scientists and their respective teams. There were other teams from Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Ecuador, Chile.
33:00: Leinen describes her first Alvin dive (three-person submersible), in an area off Washington State.
36:00: There he found a huge hydrothermal system, covered with worms and clams and spewing hot water. “My very first Alvin dive landed in the middle of one of the largest hydrothermal vent systems that we’ve ever seen.”
41:43: “I think the biggest threat to the ocean is our ignorance of it.” Some of the biggest threats include acidification, sea level rise, and the warming of the ocean.
45:28: The ocean is “a lot more resilient than we thought.” Coral reefs, for example, are not as endangered as they are perceived to be.
47:00: “The oceans aren’t going to die. We will be powerfully impacted. But they have been through a lot, and there’s a great genetic treasure trove of resilience built into marine organisms over these billions of years of evolution.”
48:12: The problem is the pace at which we are acidifying the ocean. Oceans have previously been acidic—but over tens to hundreds of thousands of years. “We don’t know how resilient things are to rapid change.”
49:18: PH is a measure of the hydrogen iron content of something. It’s hard to measure in the ocean because there are so many different kinds of acids; stable measuring instruments are also lacking.
52:30: Scripps is the home of instrument standards and instrument development for oceanography and related topics.
54:54: Dawn mentions that Pensacola and other coastal cities have a lot of run-off to the ocean, from petroleum and other sources promoting phosphate growth. Leinen comments that this non-point-source runoff results in enhanced growth of algae and phytoplankton and other plants in the ocean.
59:57: “The history of women in science over the last fifty years is really an extraordinarily good news story.”
1:01:00: Leinen notes that some fields, such as biology, have more women than men at the undergraduate level, but not necessarily in faculty/leadership positions. But the geosciences still have more men than women, producing even more of a gender gap than math or physics.
1:03:50: Lack of exposure partially drives imbalance of students in geosciences. “You would be amazed at how many children in San Diego have never been to the beach…. It’s the same in Florida, Virginia, Rhode Island.”
1:05:17: Leinen talks about her role models and mentors, making a distinction between the two. A mentor “takes an active role in your career…. Is an advocate.” A role model, she says, is someone “seen from afar.”
1:07:36: Ken Ford comments that Leinen has had a “terrific career” as a scientist, administrator and policy maker. “She’s impacted science in the U.S. and around the world.”
Episode 4: Harrison Schmitt discusses being the first scientist on the moon
In this episode, we talk with Harrison “Jack” Schmitt, the first and only scientist to land on the moon. Schmitt was part of the Apollo 17 Mission in 1972, the last Apollo mission.
The geologist turned NASA Astronaut, turned U.S. senator, talks about first seeing the advertisement, in 1964, for scientists interested in space missions. “When I saw that on the bulletin board, I hesitated about ten seconds,” he said.
Called “Dr. Rock” by his colleagues in the Apollo program, Schmitt recounts walking, falling and singing on the moon; and his discovery of orange ash, probably of volcanic in origin at Shorty Crater.
Schmitt says returning to the moon is a gateway to Mars, and that private investors may have a stake in funding future space exploration.
Schmitt recently lectured at IHMC; view his lecture on youtube. Check out his book, “Return to the Moon,” on Amazon.
STEM-Talk’s host Dawn Kernagis and co-host Tom Jones, a veteran NASA astronaut himself, talk to Schmitt.
3:53: Historic audio tape of Schmitt throwing geologist’s hammer on the moon.
5:11: Historic audio tape of Schmitt and Gene Cernan singing on the moon.
6:00: Historic audio tape of Schmitt discovering orange soil on the moon.
7:12: Jack excitedly reports from the Moon that he could see ‘orange soil’ on the rim of Shorty Crater in the Taurus-Littrow Valley. When the samples were returned to Earth, they were shown to consist of millions of very small brown-orange glass spheres. These are now thought to represent pyroclastic volcanic activity (“fire fountains”) that occurred about 3.5 billion years ago.
9:39: Schmitt’s parents inspired his interest in science from an early age. His father was an economic geologist who studied ore deposits, and his mother had an interest in botany and ornithology.
12:57: Schmitt’s thoughts on his selection as the first and only science to go to the moon.
15:31: Schmitt describes right before take-off, monitoring gauges in cabin; “becoming competitive with flight controllers” in Houston.
19:12: Schmitt says thoughts of mortality did not go through his mind pre-launch. What was he thinking? “You don’t want to recycle. That means another month of training.”
20:41: Schmitt describes first impressions of the moon: “spectacular mountains.”
22:27: Marvels at the mountains on either side: 1,600-2,100 meters above surface, which is higher than the depth of the Grand Canyon. Also notes tracks of boulders rolling down mountain.
24:30: Apollo 17 flight controllers used to call Dr. Schmitt “Dr. Rock.”
25:31: Schmitt spent his free time reading operations manual to be “the best lunar module pilot.”
27:11: Historic audio footage of Schmitt saying “dad-gummit” on the moon.
28:57: Schmitt says the Apollo A7LB spacesuit was a remarkable development. Water-cooled underwear allowed the team to control body temperature long enough for explorations.
30:38: Schmitt discusses samples from Apollo 17 mission: “The samples are the gift that keeps on giving.”
32:56: Apollo 17’s most important result: “an understanding of the early history of the earth.”
33:44: Earth’s early history was “extraordinarily violent.” Complex molecular evolution that led to life was taking place.
34:33: Schmitt believes that the moon was formed (by accretion) near earth’s orbit — not by a Mars-sized object impacting the Earth.
36:09: The orange volcanic ash found on the moon makes it unlikely that the moon was formed by a giant impact. Schmitt calls it the most important finding from Apollo 17.
38:29: Commercial break: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
39:00: Jack answers the question, “why return to the Moon?” To mine it as a reservoir of isotopic helium. And, “It’s the fastest way to Mars.”
41:25: “It’s going to take at least two generations of men and women to get us to Mars.” It’s a much higher-risk environment than the near-earth orbit.
42:56: “If I were to make make one recommendation on what it’s going to take to get us to Mars, it’s an agency that can stay young.” Cites Navy as an example of recruiting and keeping young generations.
44:24: “The initial decision to limit the Apollo program was made in the Johnson Administration.” It was a budgetary decision to only buy ten Saturn Vs, “the true enabling technology for working in deep space.”
47:14: Schmitt explains why the moon is a good source of Helium-3: Because of its lack of lunar atmosphere. “It’s [Helium-3] not abundant, but it’s so valuable in terms of its energy content, that the economics I think begin to make sense.”
49:34: Describes role of robotic explorers on moon in pre-planning human exploration and in follow-up.
51:10: Schmitt says robot field assistant “might get in the way”—at least more so than a graduate student.
53:52: “A settlement on the moon is quite doable,” Schmitt says. And carries potential economic benefit.
55:00: Current political leadership does not understand geopolitical importance of being a leader in space exploration.
56:20: “We had a lot of things going for us in pre-Apollo days,” Schmitt says: political leadership, young Sputnik generation; an adequate technology base; the geopolitical challenge of the Cold War.
58:00: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
58:36: Schmitt discusses books that formed him, from childhood through present day. History books were especially influential.
1:01:09: Schmitt’s own book project: re-casting a diary of Apollo 17, along with insights garnered from that mission in past 43 years.
1:02:50: Schmitt advises future explorers/scientists to “read a little bit of history everyday…. Including the history of exploration. “It is important to understand what has motivated people to explore if you want to be an explorer yourself.”
Episode 3: Rhonda Patrick discusses why your genes influence what you should eat
Before Rhonda Perciavalle Patrick “stumbled into research”—at the renowned Salk Institute—the Southern California native was a biochemistry major and a passionate surfer.
She’s still an avid surfer, but of her college major, Patrick said, “I wasn’t feeling connected to synthesizing peptides in the lab, so I decided that I wanted to try out biology.”
After earning her undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of California at San Diego, Patrick worked at the Salk Institute’s aging laboratory, where she became fascinated with watching how much the lifespan of nematode worms could fluctuate depending on the experiments done on them.
Hooked on aging research, she pursued that thread all the way to the laboratory of renowned scientist Dr. Bruce Ames, who developed the Triage Theory of Aging, which focuses on the long-term damage of micro-nutrient deficiencies.
Patrick is currently working with Ames as a post-doc at the Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Hospital. Together, they are looking at strategies to reverse the aging process.
She also received her Ph.D. in biomedical sciences from the University of Tennessee, where she worked at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.
Patrick lectured at IHMC in Ocala in December. https://youtu.be/wQZz5PklDB0. She also has her own podcast show, called “Found My Fitness,” at: http://www.foundmyfitness.com
STEM-Talk host Dawn Kernagis and co-host Ken Ford talked with Patrick about her research and development as a young scientist who is now at the forefront of the longevity field.
:35: Dawn introduces Rhonda Patrick as “an American biochemist, cell biologist, science communicator and podcaster.” Patrick is currently studying the effects of micro-nutrient inadequacies on metabolism, inflammation, DNA damage and aging.
4:23: Patrick discusses her appreciation for her graduate school mentor. “I got a lot of micro-management,” she said, adding that she acquired the tools she would need to answer interesting biological questions regarding cancer metabolism, apoptosis, and nutrition.
6:00: Nutrigenomics, Patrick said, is a “complex interaction between the nutrients, micro-nutrients, macro-nutrients (fat) and certain genes that we have.”
6:43: As humans, Patrick said, “We all have the same genes, but alternative forms of these genes for unknown reasons. A single nucleotide change in the DNA sequence of a gene can alter the gene function.”
7:13: Certain polymorphisms, or genetic variants, probably emerged because of environmentally-induced genetic stressors, Patrick said. For example, soil high in selenium may have caused people to develop a polymorphism that inhibits the absorption of selenium because they get so much of it naturally.
8:11: Even if the polymorphism changes the gene in a negative way, you can often find a benefit, Patrick said. “That’s probably why it’s survived.”
8:42: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
9:25: Hundreds of genes interact with micro-nutrients and macro-nutrients that we take in. For example, half the population has a polymorphism that changes the way your body metabolizes folate and folic acid, the oxidized form of folate.
11:05: Folate helps us make methyl groups, which are used for various biological functions. The MTHFR gene helps with that process, so people with a genetic polymorphism need to take a methyl folate 5 supplement.
12:00: The TRPM6 gene is a transporter of magnesium, an essential micronutrient required in over 300 enzymes in body. Some of its functions include making/using ATP; repairing DNA damage; establishing new neuronal connections in the brain.
12:27: People with a genetic polymorphism cannot transport magnesium in/out of cells, and have a significantly higher risk of diabetes than the average population.
12:52: Forty-five percent of the U.S. population does not meet the Recommended Daily Allowance for magnesium, which is 350-400 milligrams a day, Patrick said. “That, coupled with a high refined carbohydrate diet is like a ticking time bomb for Type 2 diabetes.”
13:19: Patrick notes another polymorphism for the PPAR gamma-macronutrient, which is very important for how the body metabolizes certain types of fat; and how the body can deactivate carcinogenic xenobiotics, foreign chemical substances within organisms.
13:34: “Our bodies are beautifully designed to handle all types of stress; but our genes have to be working; they have to have the right nutrients.”
14:08: Gene polymorphisms regulate our phenotype—including features such as eye and hair color. But they also regulate our risk of diseases; and the type/amount of certain foods we should take in or avoid.
15:05: Clinical trials in nutrition are often not done adequately, Patrick said. This is because of cost, and the heterogeneity of the population.
16:41: Heterocyclic amines, chemicals formed when you cook meat at a really high temperature, are shown to be carcinogenic in mice studies and linked to an increased cancer risk in humans in epidemiological studies. Some people have a gene polymorphism that does not allow them to inactivate the HCAs quickly, and the build-up can form a carcinogen.
18:51: More nutritional studies are needed because “There’s a very complex interaction between genes and diet.”
19:18: More and more physicians are becoming aware of nutrigenomics as patients bring it to their attention, armed with data from gene tests such as 23andMe.
20:33: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
21:00: Patrick has had her own DNA polymorphisms sequenced by 23andMe. She takes supplements and avoids certain foods based on this knowledge.
22:50: Diet/lifestyle/stress can alter gene expression, which can carry over to the sperm/egg DNA and be passed onto offspring.
24:17: An Australian study published in Nature showed that obese, insulin-resistant mice on high inflammatory diets had female offspring, who despite being fed normal diets and having lean bodies, developed Type I diabetes.
25:40: The Journal of Cell Metabolism published a paper comparing methyl groups of obese males versus lean ones. When the obese males lost weight, there were changes in their epigenetic markers that control hunger hormones.
27:20: While bad diets affect your disease risk and that of your offspring, “You can make a change,” Patrick said. “If you’re obese, overweight, eating a terrible diet, it’s not too late.”
28:30: Unique gene signatures occur at various ages. Researchers can look at a blood cell and tell a person’s age within a few years.
29:30: Environmental factors affect the epigenetic markers that affect the genes controlling metabolism, DNA repair, new stem cell production. Certain diet/lifestyle factors can positively affect those genes.
30:44: Lifestyle factors such as exercise, sleep, a good diet high in micro-nutrients/low in refined carbs, and low stress likely affect changes at the epigenetic level. “More and more scientists are beginning to study this and will be able to tease it apart.”
32:16: When you heat shock an organism you activate genes involved in stress resistance.
33:17: Some of the benefits of exercise come from heat shocking the body. One Finnish study showed that men who regularly used the sauna had lower all-cause mortality. Other studies have shown that mice, flies, and worms can increase their lifespan by 15-20 percent.
34:39: Heat stress increases the brain-derived neurotropic factor, which is important for growing new neurons; maintaining neurons; and strengthening the synapses between neurons.
35:20: Exercise and sauna together have a synergistic effect. May positively affect your brain.
35:33: Ford notes that wrestlers, boxers and other athletes sometimes use sauna to elevate their heart rate. Sauna use also seemed to help with recovery.
36:51: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
38:40: Vitamin D is important for making serotonin in the brain, and for early brain development. It helps shape the structure of the brain, guides neurons to the right place and ensures that the right type of neurons develop.
39:33: The developing fetus depends on maternal levels of Vitamin D. Deficient levels might alter brain development and lead to conditions like autism.
40:19: Serotonin plays a well-known role in mood alteration; it also affects impulse control, long-term thinking, planning and memory.
42:15: Many people have polymorphisms in serotonin-related genes, including Patrick herself. These polymorphisms, coupled with deficient Vitamin D intake, can be a “double whammy” for people.
43:11: “It is possible that this complex interaction between serotonin and Vitamin D may make a huge difference in peoples’ lives that are Vitamin D deficient.”
Episode 2: Br. Guy Consolmagno: The Vatican Astronomer
Guy Consolmagno is not your typical scientist. The director of Vatican Observatory is also a Jesuit Brother, astronomer extraordinaire, MIT graduate, former Peace Corp volunteer and self-described science fiction geek.
The second-generation Italian-American, born in Detroit, now divides his time between the Vatican Observatory in Italy and the Mount Graham International Observatory in Tucson, Arizona.
In 2014, Brother Guy received the Carl Sagan Medal from the American Astronomical Society for his unique position as a scientist and man of faith, and he believes firmly that the scientific and spiritual inquiry are more complementary than conflictual.
Consolmagno is the author of several books about astronomy, and science and faith, including most recently, “Would You Baptize an Extra-terrestrial?” He also authored “God’s Mechanics: How Scientists and Engineers Make Sense of Religion,” and gave a lecture at IHMC on that topic. That lecture can be found on YouTube at https://youtu.be/MJGsdY2bcsk
In another IHMC lecture, Brother Guy discusses “Discarded Worlds: Astronomical Ideas that Were Almost Correct”: https://youtu.be/Gr0R5oiIoak
Brother Guy writes for a blog called the Catholic Astronomer, which can be found at www.vofoundation.org/blog
STEM-Talk co-host Tom Jones, a former NASA astronaut who shares Brother Guy’s love of astronomy—as well as the same MIT thesis advisor, John Lewis—interviews Brother Guy about his life-long journey to understand the universe and the role of faith in that pursuit.
Introducing this podcast episode is host Dawn Kernagis and IHMC CEO Ken Ford.
1:15: The Vatican Observatory is in a town outside of Rome called Castel Gandolfo, which is also the Pope’s summer residence. Ford and his wife Nancy first met Brother Guy there a few years ago.
3:52: A day in the life of Brother Guy in Rome: after his 6 a.m. wake-up call, he works until the Italian coffee break at 10 a.m., then goes back to work until the big meal of the day at 1:30 p.m., which is followed by an afternoon siesta. In late afternoon, he spends an hour of prayer walking in the gardens, followed by Mass. Then he works again until 9 or 10 p.m., responding to emails from America.
4:44: “It’s a full day, but it’s almost like getting two days of work in,” Brother Guys says of his daily routine. “It’s exhilarating because it reminds me of all the different worlds I get to live in.”
5:07: A “Sputnik kid,” Brother Guy was in kindergarten when the Soviets launched the first satellite into the earth’s orbit. He was a high school senior when NASA astronauts landed on the moon. “How could you not be crazy about astronomy and science?”
6:18: Brother Guy followed his best friend to MIT for college. “I discovered MIT had weekend movies, and pinball machines, and the world’s largest collection of science fiction, and I knew I had to go there.”
6:55: At MIT, he studied geology, quickly discovering meteorites. “From then on meteorites were where my heart was. I never looked back.”
7:36: Astronomy reminded Brother Guy about “bigger things than what’s for lunch”; and also our human intellectual capacity to puzzle about these things.
7:52: Since the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church has backed the study of astronomy at universities, Brother Guys says. “In those days, understanding how universe works was a way of understanding how the creator works.”
9:01: In 1891, Pope Leo XIII established the Vatican Observatory to show that the church supported science. This came during a politically-charged atmosphere of anti-clericalism in France and Italy, based in part on the church’s opposition to the fashionable science of eugenics.
9:45: “You can’t do science without faith,” Brother Guy says. This means that you must have a positive world view to sustain scientific inquiry—in other words, “not think people are inherently evil.”
10:34: Not every religion can support science.
11:15: Noblemen and clergymen founded science in the 17th and 18th centuries because they had the free time to explore and think about the world.
11:41: “It’s a nineteenth-century myth that the church opposed Galileo.”
15:03: “What science has done is to remind us forcibly over and over again how big, how incredible, the creator of the universe must be. So science can only enrich our view of God.”
17:55: Brother Guy briefly considered becoming a priest, but realized he wasn’t a people person, so went to “nerd school” instead. After MIT, he did his Ph.D. at the University of Arizona, followed by two post-docs, at Harvard and MIT.
19:32: Brother Guy leaves academia to join the Peace Corp in Kenya. “I was lying in bed wondering, ‘Why am I doing astronomy when people are starving in the world?’”
20:30: He reaffirms his love of astronomy in Kenya, teaching it to graduate students, and observing the stars with villagers. “To be able to share with people that thrill of seeing the universe outside yourself; to remind them that we’re all part of the human race that went to the moon. That’s why we do astronomy.”
21:15: Brother Guy joins the Jesuits as a scientist. He must take three vows: chastity and poverty, harkening back to his graduate school days, were easier than obedience—until he got a letter ordering him to go to Rome. “I had to obey,” he says. “Life is tough, but there it is.”
22:30: He lauds the stable funding situation at the Vatican Observatory, compared to academia.
23:00: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
23:51: Brother Guys compares the asteroid belt to the “scrap heap of the solar system: The bits and pieces that didn’t get into a planet, and tell us what the ingredients of the planet are.”
26:07: Pope Benedict made references to astronomy during his homilies and was fascinated by the Vatican’s own meteorite collection.
29:35: Brother Guys ruminates on being a student at Arizona, where he studied meteorites from Vesta, the brightest asteroid in the sky. “We were able to show conclusively that they were ten times in richer in trace elements than typical meteorites.”
30:07: Also learned about Vesta, from the Dawn spacecraft in 2011-2012: the core of Vesta was twice the expected radius; the crust was six to eight times thicker. “Suddenly we realized Vesta was not pristine. Vesta is a second-generation body. It’s something that was a lot bigger.”
31:50: “Science is not about finding the answers—but understanding the things we do know in a deeper and more profound way all the time.”
33:07: The commercial mining potential for asteroids nearby earth is just beginning; contains great potential for rare elements, platinum and gold; iron and nickel. “What’s that gonna do to the economy of the earth? It’s going to change things.”
34:49: “We’re probably not going to remember the first companies that exploit space. We’re going to learn from their mistakes.”
35:09: Commercial break: STEM-Talk is an educational service of the Florida Institute for Human and Machine Cognition, a not-for-profit research lab pioneering ground-breaking technologies aimed at leveraging human cognition, perception, locomotion and resilience.
35:34: Brother Guys mentions the need to take “inventory of what’s out there.” Advance warning of potential catastrophic events is key to deflecting or preparing for them. We can have three to four years of advance warning of a comet.
36:20: International cooperation is also key to understanding and handling such events. “Something that was big enough to destroy the dinosaurs didn’t care what species of dinosaurs they were. They all went.”
37:47: To a scientist, the question is not ‘Is there life on another planet, but what is that life like?’
41:00: In 2012, a British journalist asked Brother Guy, “Would You Baptize an Extra-Terrestrial?” His answer: “Yes, if she asks…” That answer fundamentally changed the frame of the question, by making it the extra-terrestrial’s choice.
43:07: Similar to being in love, a lot of prayer is just shutting up and listening, Brother Guy says. Turning off your brain and your concerns; remembering the universe that you are in and the presence of love in that universe.
44:36: Other times, praying involves asking. “Sometimes in the asking, you end up recognizing the answer that’s been sitting there all along.”
44:47: Commercial Break: Brother Guy’s two IHMC evening lectures can be found on YouTube. Look for: “God’s Mechanics: The Religious life of Techies”; and “Discarded Worlds: Astronomical Ideas That Were Almost Correct.”
47:20: “Believing in God doesn’t mean rejecting reason.”
50:12: “Looking for the elegance of the universe is not only a pointer to scientific truth, but ultimately a pointer to God.”
52:37: Brother Guy doesn’t get caught up in criticizing the bureaucracies of big organizations. NASA, after all, “got us to the moon,” he says.
53:54: Science works best as a conversation in a community. “Sometimes the greatest advances occur when we don’t even notice—and we need somebody next to us to point it out.”
54:45: Brother Guy writes for a blog called the Catholic Astronomer at www.vofoundation.org/blog. There you will also find his calendar of speaking engagements and travels.
55:33: Saturday tours of Mt. Graham International Observatory and Discovery Park in Safford, Arizona.
56:11: Work is being done on a visitors’ center at the Vatican Observatory at Castel Gandolfo, Italy.
Episode 1: Peter Attia on how to live longer and better
Dr. Peter Attia, the guest for this episode of STEM-Talk, is a modern-day “Renaissance man,” says IHMC CEO Ken Ford. That term gets tossed around a lot, but in Attia’s case, it’s true. He is a top-notch physician, a former McKinsey consultant, and an ultra endurance athlete—who once swam twenty-something miles to Catalina Island, off the coast of California.
During the podcast show, Attia talks about his academic journey, from studying math and engineering, to then pursuing clinical medicine and developing research interests in longevity. The birth of Attia’s daughter marked his interest in quantity of life—as well as quality of life.
Attia discusses his eight “drivers of longevity,” all of which depart from the concept of preventing the onset of chronic disease. These include optimal nutrition, exercise, sleep habits, hormone optimization, stress management, sense of purpose/social connections, medications, and avoidance of harmful behaviors.
Check out Peter Attia’s blog “The Eating Academy,” at http://eatingacademy.com. You can also check out his TED talk “Is the obesity crisis hiding a bigger problem? https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes?language=en
STEM-Talk’s host Dawn Kernagis and Ken Ford chats with Peter Attia.
3:25: In college, Attia volunteered at a children’s hospital, which inspired his interest in medicine.
4:08: Ford notes that math and engineering provide a useful background for medicine. Attia later notes that his early academic background in both these subjects “still colors how I look at the world.”
4:32: Attia’s advice to college students who are aspiring physicians: “I think you should study anything that you are not going to learn in medical school.”
5:25: Two things drive significant change in a person’s life: “abject misery and profound inspiration.” The former drove Attia out of clinical medicine.
6:27: The birth of Attia’s daughter spurred his interest in longevity.
7:05: Commercial break:
8:32: Centenarians get diseases 20-30 years later than most people.
9:20: Longevity is first and foremost about delaying the onset of chronic disease.
10:13: Animal literature shows that caloric restriction increases longevity; so do drugs that prevent mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin).
11:52: Eight things improve longevity and quality of life: food, exercise, sleep patterns, management of chronic stress, hormone optimization, medications, sense of purpose/social support network, avoidance of harmful behaviors.
12:28: Accidental death is the fourth or fifth leading cause of death in the U.S.; 80 percent of these are auto accidents, accidental poisoning and falls.
13:09: Ford and Attia agree that trade-offs sometimes exist between interventions likely to increase lifespan and those aimed at aimed at increasing healthspan.
15:50: People who consume fewer calories are likely to have a lower risk of diabetes, heart disease and cancer; they may also have more deficient immune systems and greater susceptibility to catastrophes like falls.
16:10: Caloric restriction creates an environment of cell signaling, cell growth, and nutrient sensing that slows down aging.
16:36: One of the greatest challenges in studying longevity is the inability to accurately measure biologic signals such as mTOR activity.
17:08: Attia characterizes protein optimization: “We want to see IGF-1 levels lower; AMP kinase more active; Ras less active.”
18:36: “Three things I walk through life wanting to keep at a minimum,” Attia says: How to minimize mean level glucose, variability of glucose, and insulin AUC (area under the curve).
19:24: Attia eats 125-150 grams of specific carbs per day, at times when he can maximally dispose of it. He also wears a continue glucose monitor that measures glucose every five minutes.
20:47: Ford and Attia discuss the benefits of a ketogenic diets and the implications for IGF-1, mTOR, insulin, and amino acids.
22:18: The ideal diet minimizes glucose and has moderate but sufficient protein; the majority of the diet becomes fat.
23:30: Ketogenic diets do not work for everyone. The efficacy of the ketogenic diets mqy have a genetic basis and it does not seem appropriate for everyone.
24:27: We should talk about molecules and physiology instead of diets.
25:19: Ford and Attia discuss the trade-offs associated with leucine supplementation which increases mTOR1 … which in turn stimulates protein synthesis necessary for maintaining and increasing muscle mass and staving off sarcopenia. On the other hand, chronic elevation of mTOR is not desirable in terms of lifespan. Attia and Ford discuss how they use amino acids around exercise.
28:00: Attia discusses his blog “The Eating Academy,” which he initially called “The War on Insulin.”
30:30: In the blog, Attia discusses how the ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting increase longevity.
30:57: A recent, retrospective paper on exceptionally long-lived humans finds they have low levels of IGF-1.
32:34: Low IGF from neck down is beneficial in preventing cancer/cardiovascular disease; high IGF above the neck helps prevent Alzheimer’s Disease.
33:54: Attia and Ford discuss IGF-1 and sacrocpenia in the context of healthspan. Low IGF-1 may be correlated with increased longevity, but IGF-1 (and mTOR) is an important driver of muscle protein synthesis and, all things being equal, the more muscle mass you have, the better. We should all be striving to have as much of it as we can, Attia says.
34:45: Ford notes, that although the causes for sarcopenia are multifactorial, it does seem that one of the drivers of sarcopenia is a general anabolic hormone resistance, very much like insulin resistance that we discussed earlier.
35:07: There’s a difference between training with massive specificity to optimally perform a specific task like pro athletes; and training to stay healthy and not get hurt. As we age, we need to focus on the latter and train to be the “athlete of your life.”
39:14: Nothing trumps resistance training.
40:18: More muscle allows you to tolerate greater glucose input.
41:10: The loss of muscle mass accelerates as we age.
43:12: We’re evolved to deal with acute stress; chronic stress is a newer, more difficult phenomenon.
44:12: Attia calls literature on meditation “messy.” His advice? Pick one and run with it. His choice is transcendental meditation.
45:20: “Phosphatidylserine” is a wonderful sleep agent that suppresses the adrenal glands in the evening.
46:06: “There’s no doubt that keeping cortisol levels in check requires the most work.”
49:19: Our ancestors spent one third of their lives sleeping. The benefit must have eclipsed the survival risk because we’ve held onto this habit.
50:00: Clinical trials on sleep show that between seven and a half and eight and a half hours of sleep is optimal.
54:04: Sleep agents like Ambien provide very little good quality sleep (stage three and four).
55:14: Sleep expert Kirk Parsley will be an upcoming guest on STEM-Talk.
55:39: Hormone replenishment takes place during sleep.
56:58: As we age, we get slower, fatter, colder, less energetic. Hormones drive those tendencies.
57:12: In men, the androgen system undergoes a slow and predictable decline; in women, it is more precipitous at menopause.
57:42: Attia discusses the flaws of the Women’s Health Initiative, which unnecessarily stigmatized hormone replacement therapy.
58:07: A woman without estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone in her body is neither healthy nor feeling good.
59:20: Testosterone is the dominant hormone in a woman’s body.
1:01: Attia discusses relative risk versus absolute risk.
1:03:18: There are no absolute black and whites in pharmacology, Attia says. Drugs such as statins and metformin are context-specific.
1:05:38: Heart disease is still the number one killer in both men and women.
1:05:40: Attia discusses elevated uric acid levels.
1:06:08: Attia keeps a tool kit of 20-25 drugs. “It’s like building a custom home for somebody,” he says, based on their phenotype, risks, etc.
1:07:20: Attia discusses Berberine and Metformin.
1:07:52: Ford mentions a newly approved study which will examine Metformin as a longevity drug.
1:09:19: People who work longer versus retire sooner have better cognitive outcomes. The more active the brain is, the better the brain is.
1:12:20: Attia says genetic testing is “a little over-hyped” and not a panacea. It is insightful for pediatric metabolic diseases and cancer germ-line mutations, but much of what genes are doing is still unknown.
1:17:54: Attia’s last (but not least) driver of longevity is to not do “stupid things.” Half of auto deaths occur on the freeway; of the half, most occur at intersections from the left-hand side. So at an intersection, first look left.